5 ms·

I have many friends who cannot afford to go to college, yet have entry-level coding skills and want experience in order to get a job as a developer.

blocked_again 5y ago
Have they considered emmigrating to one of the more developed countries?
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Almost every developed country requires immigrants on work visas to hold degrees. In the US, if I wanted to sponsor a foreign developer's work visa, they first need to have a degree to meet the prerequisites for the visa at all.
  - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
    No, H1B also allows proof of equivalent work experience. I.e. letters of recommendation for employers of at least 4 years.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      I looked into it, and the US counts 3 years of qualified work experience as 1 year of academic studies, and requires the equivalent of 4 years of college studying for H1B visas. Someone with no degree needs 12 years of qualified work experience, someone with a 2 year degree needs 8 years of work experience, etc. According to this Quora answer[1] regarding H1B: > Out of 108,101 initial employment approvals in 2017, less than 200 were for individuals with less than a bachelors degree (this includes associate degrees). > https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Characteristics-of-Specialty-Occupation-Workers-H-1B-Fiscal-Year-2017.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch... (page 10) [1] https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-university-degree-but-with-the-necessary-experience https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-unive...
      - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
        Ah, that explains why I only needed 3 years of work experience, as I’ve had a 3.5-year bachelors.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  As always, "if you don't like it just move across the world right now" is not a viable argument.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    It always is. Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. Just look at Musk, it was either PayPal or military service during Apartheid...
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. The US requires immigrants to hold college degrees if they want work visas to work in SV.
      - rrdharan 5y ago
        Well not exactly, you get 12 months of work on an F1 student visa (meaning you don’t have to already “hold” the degree).
    - nnoitra 5y ago
      Not sure if sarcastic. Immigration to US is incredibly difficult.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        Not that hard if someone is qualified; thousands do it every year.
        fomine3 5y ago
        We're talking about for who isn't qualified.
        vbezhenar 5y ago
- Permit 5y ago
  Ignoring pathways for refugees, it is really hard (impossible?) to do this without a degree.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Might be possible on a student visa, but you wouldn't be allowed to work, or the work you're legally allowed to do would be constrained.
    - toast0 5y ago
      I don't know about other countries, but getting a student visa into the US requires a lot of resources too.
      - 2143 5y ago
        What resources? It was a straightforward process for me. Here's my experience applying for student visa from India. Once the US university accepted me, they physically mailed me the paperwork (acceptance letter, I20/DS2019 form etc). I scheduled an appointment (which involved filling up a huge form online that took 2 hours) with my nearest US Consulate, which was the one in Chennai. I believe (not sure) the US Consulate in Chennai is the largest consulate US has worldwide. I think this facility processes the most number of visas or something. At my meeting with the US consular officer they examined the paperwork, and my visa was approved. The meeting with consular officer took only 5 minutes, though I had to wait an hour to reach the front of the line. They didn't even ask me too much questions — just what my parents and siblings did. However, I hear about a lot of people who got their student visa application rejected, so I have no idea why it was easy for me and hard for them. And I did this twice. Once for a single semester exchange program to the US, and another when I decided to get my master's degree from USA. The visa interview was a pleasant experience both times. Later, when my parents decided to visit the US, it was a straightforward process for them as well to get a tourist visa. Of course, work visa is a totally different beast, I hear. (Also — not relevant, but I returned back to India after my masters due to personal reasons. I had a really good time in America).
- Karsteski 5y ago
  Offering emigration as a solutuon to someone who does not have money for tertiary education is a wildly ignorant thing to say. Emigration is expensive, and quite difficult, doubly so if someone is not educated. Emigration to the US even more so.
  - markdown 5y ago
    > doubly so if someone is not educated. Not just doubly so. In most cases it's impossible.
    - Karsteski 5y ago
      Very true indeed
  - scotty79 5y ago
    I think he was suggesting emigration out of US to a more developed country where education is free. It's pefectly reasonable to imagine you have money to emigrate out of US but not enough money to buy education in the US because it's so expensive.

blocked_again 5y ago

Have they considered emmigrating to one of the more developed countries?

heavyset_go 5y ago
Almost every developed country requires immigrants on work visas to hold degrees. In the US, if I wanted to sponsor a foreign developer's work visa, they first need to have a degree to meet the prerequisites for the visa at all.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
  No, H1B also allows proof of equivalent work experience. I.e. letters of recommendation for employers of at least 4 years.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    I looked into it, and the US counts 3 years of qualified work experience as 1 year of academic studies, and requires the equivalent of 4 years of college studying for H1B visas. Someone with no degree needs 12 years of qualified work experience, someone with a 2 year degree needs 8 years of work experience, etc. According to this Quora answer[1] regarding H1B: > Out of 108,101 initial employment approvals in 2017, less than 200 were for individuals with less than a bachelors degree (this includes associate degrees). > https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Characteristics-of-Specialty-Occupation-Workers-H-1B-Fiscal-Year-2017.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch... (page 10) [1] https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-university-degree-but-with-the-necessary-experience https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-unive...
    - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
      Ah, that explains why I only needed 3 years of work experience, as I’ve had a 3.5-year bachelors.
tshaddox 5y ago
As always, "if you don't like it just move across the world right now" is not a viable argument.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  It always is. Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. Just look at Musk, it was either PayPal or military service during Apartheid...
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. The US requires immigrants to hold college degrees if they want work visas to work in SV.
    - rrdharan 5y ago
      Well not exactly, you get 12 months of work on an F1 student visa (meaning you don’t have to already “hold” the degree).
  - nnoitra 5y ago
    Not sure if sarcastic. Immigration to US is incredibly difficult.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      Not that hard if someone is qualified; thousands do it every year.
      - fomine3 5y ago
        We're talking about for who isn't qualified.
      - vbezhenar 5y ago
Permit 5y ago
Ignoring pathways for refugees, it is really hard (impossible?) to do this without a degree.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Might be possible on a student visa, but you wouldn't be allowed to work, or the work you're legally allowed to do would be constrained.
  - toast0 5y ago
    I don't know about other countries, but getting a student visa into the US requires a lot of resources too.
    - 2143 5y ago
      What resources? It was a straightforward process for me. Here's my experience applying for student visa from India. Once the US university accepted me, they physically mailed me the paperwork (acceptance letter, I20/DS2019 form etc). I scheduled an appointment (which involved filling up a huge form online that took 2 hours) with my nearest US Consulate, which was the one in Chennai. I believe (not sure) the US Consulate in Chennai is the largest consulate US has worldwide. I think this facility processes the most number of visas or something. At my meeting with the US consular officer they examined the paperwork, and my visa was approved. The meeting with consular officer took only 5 minutes, though I had to wait an hour to reach the front of the line. They didn't even ask me too much questions — just what my parents and siblings did. However, I hear about a lot of people who got their student visa application rejected, so I have no idea why it was easy for me and hard for them. And I did this twice. Once for a single semester exchange program to the US, and another when I decided to get my master's degree from USA. The visa interview was a pleasant experience both times. Later, when my parents decided to visit the US, it was a straightforward process for them as well to get a tourist visa. Of course, work visa is a totally different beast, I hear. (Also — not relevant, but I returned back to India after my masters due to personal reasons. I had a really good time in America).
Karsteski 5y ago
Offering emigration as a solutuon to someone who does not have money for tertiary education is a wildly ignorant thing to say. Emigration is expensive, and quite difficult, doubly so if someone is not educated. Emigration to the US even more so.
- markdown 5y ago
  > doubly so if someone is not educated. Not just doubly so. In most cases it's impossible.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    Very true indeed
- scotty79 5y ago
  I think he was suggesting emigration out of US to a more developed country where education is free. It's pefectly reasonable to imagine you have money to emigrate out of US but not enough money to buy education in the US because it's so expensive.