8 ms·

It is already very hard to get in as a student. why make it even tougher for them?

by sss111 5y ago

fermentation 5y ago
I have many friends who cannot afford to go to college, yet have entry-level coding skills and want experience in order to get a job as a developer.
- blocked_again 5y ago
  Have they considered emmigrating to one of the more developed countries?
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Almost every developed country requires immigrants on work visas to hold degrees. In the US, if I wanted to sponsor a foreign developer's work visa, they first need to have a degree to meet the prerequisites for the visa at all.
    - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
      No, H1B also allows proof of equivalent work experience. I.e. letters of recommendation for employers of at least 4 years.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        I looked into it, and the US counts 3 years of qualified work experience as 1 year of academic studies, and requires the equivalent of 4 years of college studying for H1B visas. Someone with no degree needs 12 years of qualified work experience, someone with a 2 year degree needs 8 years of work experience, etc. According to this Quora answer[1] regarding H1B: > Out of 108,101 initial employment approvals in 2017, less than 200 were for individuals with less than a bachelors degree (this includes associate degrees). > https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Characteristics-of-Specialty-Occupation-Workers-H-1B-Fiscal-Year-2017.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch... (page 10) [1] https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-university-degree-but-with-the-necessary-experience https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-unive...
        aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
        Ah, that explains why I only needed 3 years of work experience, as I’ve had a 3.5-year bachelors.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    As always, "if you don't like it just move across the world right now" is not a viable argument.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      It always is. Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. Just look at Musk, it was either PayPal or military service during Apartheid...
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        > Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. The US requires immigrants to hold college degrees if they want work visas to work in SV.
        rrdharan 5y ago
        Well not exactly, you get 12 months of work on an F1 student visa (meaning you don’t have to already “hold” the degree).
      - nnoitra 5y ago
        Not sure if sarcastic. Immigration to US is incredibly difficult.
        908B64B197 5y ago
        Not that hard if someone is qualified; thousands do it every year.
        fomine3 5y ago
        We're talking about for who isn't qualified.
        vbezhenar 5y ago
  - Permit 5y ago
    Ignoring pathways for refugees, it is really hard (impossible?) to do this without a degree.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      Might be possible on a student visa, but you wouldn't be allowed to work, or the work you're legally allowed to do would be constrained.
      - toast0 5y ago
        I don't know about other countries, but getting a student visa into the US requires a lot of resources too.
        2143 5y ago
        What resources? It was a straightforward process for me. Here's my experience applying for student visa from India. Once the US university accepted me, they physically mailed me the paperwork (acceptance letter, I20/DS2019 form etc). I scheduled an appointment (which involved filling up a huge form online that took 2 hours) with my nearest US Consulate, which was the one in Chennai. I believe (not sure) the US Consulate in Chennai is the largest consulate US has worldwide. I think this facility processes the most number of visas or something. At my meeting with the US consular officer they examined the paperwork, and my visa was approved. The meeting with consular officer took only 5 minutes, though I had to wait an hour to reach the front of the line. They didn't even ask me too much questions — just what my parents and siblings did. However, I hear about a lot of people who got their student visa application rejected, so I have no idea why it was easy for me and hard for them. And I did this twice. Once for a single semester exchange program to the US, and another when I decided to get my master's degree from USA. The visa interview was a pleasant experience both times. Later, when my parents decided to visit the US, it was a straightforward process for them as well to get a tourist visa. Of course, work visa is a totally different beast, I hear. (Also — not relevant, but I returned back to India after my masters due to personal reasons. I had a really good time in America).
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    Offering emigration as a solutuon to someone who does not have money for tertiary education is a wildly ignorant thing to say. Emigration is expensive, and quite difficult, doubly so if someone is not educated. Emigration to the US even more so.
    - markdown 5y ago
      > doubly so if someone is not educated. Not just doubly so. In most cases it's impossible.
      - Karsteski 5y ago
        Very true indeed
    - scotty79 5y ago
      I think he was suggesting emigration out of US to a more developed country where education is free. It's pefectly reasonable to imagine you have money to emigrate out of US but not enough money to buy education in the US because it's so expensive.
geodel 5y ago
It is only a good thing that others also get opportunity to work for Open source and also earn some money for it.
- dilyevsky 5y ago
  It is already pretty hard on maintainers which I don’t believe get paid. I think it’s worth it if it’s for students but it should have been a separate program if it’s just some random person wanting to get involved.
  - geodel 5y ago
    I do not know if random student to be able earn money for open source work is somehow inherently better than random person getting it. I could be more concerned if they made program more restrictive. But making it more open is not only more practical and useful for people at large it is also ethically better thing to do. Besides if someone dislike Google's decision they are welcome to not participate.
    - dilyevsky 5y ago
      Depends on how they are going to be selecting participants (blogpost doesn’t mention that). If that opens up a floodgate for yesterday’s freelancers to suddenly be interested in open source (but really just to make a quick buck) then i can see projects pulling out bc it repurposes the program from purely mentorship/education-focused to commercial and the end result will be worse for everyone.
      - david_allison 5y ago
        Selection for GSoC contributors is based on the mentoring organization's criteria and the number of student slots provided by Google. A rough timeline for 2022 is available[0], as is the 2021 timeline[1] which should provide context. [0] https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201218163427/https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline https://web.archive.org/web/20201218163427/https://developer... (2021 GSoC mentor & org admin, but can't guarantee the process will be the same in 2022)

It is already very hard to get in as a student. why make it even tougher for them?

by sss111 5y ago

It is already very hard to get in as a student. why make it even tougher for them?

I have many friends who cannot afford to go to college, yet have entry-level coding skills and want experience in order to get a job as a developer.

blocked_again 5y ago
Have they considered emmigrating to one of the more developed countries?
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Almost every developed country requires immigrants on work visas to hold degrees. In the US, if I wanted to sponsor a foreign developer's work visa, they first need to have a degree to meet the prerequisites for the visa at all.
  - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
    No, H1B also allows proof of equivalent work experience. I.e. letters of recommendation for employers of at least 4 years.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      I looked into it, and the US counts 3 years of qualified work experience as 1 year of academic studies, and requires the equivalent of 4 years of college studying for H1B visas. Someone with no degree needs 12 years of qualified work experience, someone with a 2 year degree needs 8 years of work experience, etc. According to this Quora answer[1] regarding H1B: > Out of 108,101 initial employment approvals in 2017, less than 200 were for individuals with less than a bachelors degree (this includes associate degrees). > https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Characteristics-of-Specialty-Occupation-Workers-H-1B-Fiscal-Year-2017.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch... (page 10) [1] https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-university-degree-but-with-the-necessary-experience https://www.quora.com/Can-I-have-an-H1B-visa-without-a-unive...
      - aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago
        Ah, that explains why I only needed 3 years of work experience, as I’ve had a 3.5-year bachelors.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  As always, "if you don't like it just move across the world right now" is not a viable argument.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    It always is. Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. Just look at Musk, it was either PayPal or military service during Apartheid...
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > Year after year thousands of bright young minds just come to the valley to build and innovate. The US requires immigrants to hold college degrees if they want work visas to work in SV.
      - rrdharan 5y ago
        Well not exactly, you get 12 months of work on an F1 student visa (meaning you don’t have to already “hold” the degree).
    - nnoitra 5y ago
      Not sure if sarcastic. Immigration to US is incredibly difficult.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        Not that hard if someone is qualified; thousands do it every year.
        fomine3 5y ago
        We're talking about for who isn't qualified.
        vbezhenar 5y ago
- Permit 5y ago
  Ignoring pathways for refugees, it is really hard (impossible?) to do this without a degree.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Might be possible on a student visa, but you wouldn't be allowed to work, or the work you're legally allowed to do would be constrained.
    - toast0 5y ago
      I don't know about other countries, but getting a student visa into the US requires a lot of resources too.
      - 2143 5y ago
        What resources? It was a straightforward process for me. Here's my experience applying for student visa from India. Once the US university accepted me, they physically mailed me the paperwork (acceptance letter, I20/DS2019 form etc). I scheduled an appointment (which involved filling up a huge form online that took 2 hours) with my nearest US Consulate, which was the one in Chennai. I believe (not sure) the US Consulate in Chennai is the largest consulate US has worldwide. I think this facility processes the most number of visas or something. At my meeting with the US consular officer they examined the paperwork, and my visa was approved. The meeting with consular officer took only 5 minutes, though I had to wait an hour to reach the front of the line. They didn't even ask me too much questions — just what my parents and siblings did. However, I hear about a lot of people who got their student visa application rejected, so I have no idea why it was easy for me and hard for them. And I did this twice. Once for a single semester exchange program to the US, and another when I decided to get my master's degree from USA. The visa interview was a pleasant experience both times. Later, when my parents decided to visit the US, it was a straightforward process for them as well to get a tourist visa. Of course, work visa is a totally different beast, I hear. (Also — not relevant, but I returned back to India after my masters due to personal reasons. I had a really good time in America).
- Karsteski 5y ago
  Offering emigration as a solutuon to someone who does not have money for tertiary education is a wildly ignorant thing to say. Emigration is expensive, and quite difficult, doubly so if someone is not educated. Emigration to the US even more so.
  - markdown 5y ago
    > doubly so if someone is not educated. Not just doubly so. In most cases it's impossible.
    - Karsteski 5y ago
      Very true indeed
  - scotty79 5y ago
    I think he was suggesting emigration out of US to a more developed country where education is free. It's pefectly reasonable to imagine you have money to emigrate out of US but not enough money to buy education in the US because it's so expensive.

geodel 5y ago

It is only a good thing that others also get opportunity to work for Open source and also earn some money for it.

dilyevsky 5y ago
It is already pretty hard on maintainers which I don’t believe get paid. I think it’s worth it if it’s for students but it should have been a separate program if it’s just some random person wanting to get involved.
- geodel 5y ago
  I do not know if random student to be able earn money for open source work is somehow inherently better than random person getting it. I could be more concerned if they made program more restrictive. But making it more open is not only more practical and useful for people at large it is also ethically better thing to do. Besides if someone dislike Google's decision they are welcome to not participate.
  - dilyevsky 5y ago
    Depends on how they are going to be selecting participants (blogpost doesn’t mention that). If that opens up a floodgate for yesterday’s freelancers to suddenly be interested in open source (but really just to make a quick buck) then i can see projects pulling out bc it repurposes the program from purely mentorship/education-focused to commercial and the end result will be worse for everyone.
    - david_allison 5y ago
      Selection for GSoC contributors is based on the mentoring organization's criteria and the number of student slots provided by Google. A rough timeline for 2022 is available[0], as is the 2021 timeline[1] which should provide context. [0] https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201218163427/https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline https://web.archive.org/web/20201218163427/https://developer... (2021 GSoC mentor & org admin, but can't guarantee the process will be the same in 2022)