5 ms·

I'm Gen Z. Most Gen Zs are socialists (we actually know what it means) with a small minority of libertarians. Very few would want to work for the CIA.

handrous 5y ago
> Thirty-one percent of voters ages 18 to 24 supported Trump in November, according to exit polls, down from 37 percent in 2016. From NBC. Sure, 37% isn't "most", but I think it's a fair guess that if 37% supported Trump, well under 50% of the total are socialists.
- tata71 5y ago
  Many misunderstood Trump voters. Some of them genuinely want to see rock-bottom so we'd start caring about government, as a people, again.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  You keep saying 37% as if that is the most relevant number when it's not. the 31% from last year is both more indicative of recent trends and cuts deeper into the Gen Z demographic. I think a good chunk of people who were 18-24 in 2016 would still be considered Millennials.
  - handrous 5y ago
    OK, but are you arguing against the substance of it? 2020, that age range would have all been Gen Z, I'm pretty sure. Still 31%. Do you think the breakdown of Gen Z political opinions, ordered by prominence, is "socialist (51+%) -> Trump supporter (~31%) -> everything else (less than 18%)"? My educated guess would be you could flip those "socialist" and "everything else" numbers and that'd be way closer to correct—which is still a huge increase over other generations, if it's even as high as 18%! FWIW if we had a viable, actual socialist party, I'd vote & even campaign for them. But I think you're way wrong about how far things are shifting, with Gen Z, unfortunately. I do hope I'm the one who's wrong, but I doubt it. I'm a millennial, but if I look at my social group (mostly gen-z through gen-x) it's nearly all socialists and left- or off-the-spectrum-anarchists[EDIT: probably a couple would identify, specifically, as left-libertarian, now that I think about it, which is very unlike right-libertarian—at least one of those might pointedly insist on just calling the left-libertarian position "liberal"]. That's my bubble, though, and doesn't reflect the proportions for the rest of the country. [EDIT] Maybe we have different thresholds or definitions of "socialist"? I'd believe that over half of Gen Z wants a "public option" for healthcare, and maybe even M4A, for instance. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some Gen Z Trumpers want those (Trump did, oddly enough, give some lip-service to reform in that direction in his campaigns, though not to M4A)
    - babypuncher 5y ago
      I think it makes a difference in perception, because 31% is less than a third. Left-leaning Gen-Z voters essentially form a super-majority in their demographic.
- jjk166 5y ago
  In 2016, the oldest gen Zers were turning 18. Everyone 19-24 in that age range would have been millennials. Also many Trump supporters are libertarians.
havkd 5y ago
First, that depends on your circles. Second, many people turn to the right as they mature.
- keewee7 5y ago
  Unfortunately people's political positions today are more static because of social media bubbles.
  - laurent92 5y ago
    Source? This seems like an estimation based on people around you; In my surroundings, people shifted from moderate to the extremes both sides, and I moved from center-left to stark right.
thereddaikon 5y ago
Actual socialists had secret police. Every government has intelligence services. What do you think being a socialist means and what does that have to do with working for the CIA?
- bitwize 5y ago
  Working for the CIA means submitting to and supporting the existing power structure (unless you're doing a long-march-through-the-institutions, subversion-from-within thing, which, good luck against the CIA). Now once the socialist regime sets up secret police, it will be utterly benevolent and work solely toward emancipation of the working class.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    ...unless you're doing a long-march-through-the-institutions, subversion-from-within thing, which, good luck against the CIA... How can we be sure this hasn't happened already? Could anyone imagine a less effective, more hated organization? Could CIA provide poorer intelligence to the executive if they were actually trying to provide poor intelligence? Could their actions reflect more poorly on USA if they were actually trying to tarnish our reputation? [EDIT:] Perhaps this just proves your point. Continued existence of something like CIA in a putatively democratic society is a mystery. Perhaps they practice a sort of continuous self-disruption, defending themselves from the attentions of better people by always getting worse?
- handrous 5y ago
  Most folks throwing around "socialist" in a positive light in the US mean it like "social democracy", as in the Nordics or various European social-democratic parties. The socialist-socialists—having known a few—usually just say Marxist or communist to describe their position, in my experience. "Socialist" only means "like Venezuela or East Germany" when a Republican is saying it, not when people self-describe as socialist. [EDIT] and yes, to head it off, even Norway has intelligence services, sure—but they don't have Stasi.
  - 5y ago
oh_sigh 5y ago
Ok zoomer
mcguire 5y ago
Wait, I thought all the Gen Z's were living with their parents, unemployed, and desperate for an income to pay off their student loans.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  Thats Millenials. They got hit with the GFC as they were leaving college and then COVID hit as soon as they clawed their way out of the GFC to buy a house/start families. This is in contrast to Boomers(their parents) who had excellent financial prospects growing up. To make things worse, they pinned their hopes on Obama's "Hope and change" which was a complete sham. Gen Z had no illusions that this was a fair world from the get go. They got converted to pessimism early since their parents (Gen X) were the first gen after boomers to have an overall decline. A large chunk supported Bernie and watching him get trampled and robbed in 2020 allowed them to see how the world really works early on! The rest of the non-Bernie gen-Z are typically rural(but not always) watching far right junk like Ben Shapiro. I see a lot of youtubers in riral areas that fight for Trump/newish right wingers to the party. On the plus side while Gen X was a desert in terms of progressives(probably because Boomers stamped them out early on) Millennials and to a greater extend Gen-Z have a lot of energetic fresh blood in the pipeline to shift the country far left. I saw with my own eyes how hard they pushed during the 2020 primaries to replace as many incumbents as they could. They mostly fell short but that energy is still there. We are going to see a lot of amazing leftist Gen Z leaders in my opinion.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't do generational flamewar here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html p.s. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29181413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29181413 was much much better. Talking about personal experiences usually is.
walshemj 5y ago
I somewhat doubt that more like wet Tories (Eisenhower republican's) There's a lot of "hobbyists" who think they are socialists
missinfo 5y ago
What does it mean?
- cwkoss 5y ago
  CIA is infamous for using espionage and other tactics to overthrow socialist governments.
jwilber 5y ago
Most Gen Zs in your network.
jollybean 5y ago
Socialism has nothing to do with one's propensity to be a part of security apparatus, and, I suspect you're basically wrong about 'your generation'. More than likely, all of your friends fit that description (and your projecting), and, you're failing to take into consideration that people change perspective as they get older and wiser. Also, GenZ are basically still children, they're not even out of school. So whatever they believe has to be contextualized strongly by that.
m0zg 5y ago
My son is Gen Z. From what he has shown me in his chats his (rather large) peer group is based AF. That's in the bluest part of a deep blue state. I can only imagine what they're chatting about in the Rust Belt.

handrous 5y ago

> Thirty-one percent of voters ages 18 to 24 supported Trump in November, according to exit polls, down from 37 percent in 2016. From NBC. Sure, 37% isn't "most", but I think it's a fair guess that if 37% supported Trump, well under 50% of the total are socialists.

tata71 5y ago
Many misunderstood Trump voters. Some of them genuinely want to see rock-bottom so we'd start caring about government, as a people, again.
babypuncher 5y ago
You keep saying 37% as if that is the most relevant number when it's not. the 31% from last year is both more indicative of recent trends and cuts deeper into the Gen Z demographic. I think a good chunk of people who were 18-24 in 2016 would still be considered Millennials.
- handrous 5y ago
  OK, but are you arguing against the substance of it? 2020, that age range would have all been Gen Z, I'm pretty sure. Still 31%. Do you think the breakdown of Gen Z political opinions, ordered by prominence, is "socialist (51+%) -> Trump supporter (~31%) -> everything else (less than 18%)"? My educated guess would be you could flip those "socialist" and "everything else" numbers and that'd be way closer to correct—which is still a huge increase over other generations, if it's even as high as 18%! FWIW if we had a viable, actual socialist party, I'd vote & even campaign for them. But I think you're way wrong about how far things are shifting, with Gen Z, unfortunately. I do hope I'm the one who's wrong, but I doubt it. I'm a millennial, but if I look at my social group (mostly gen-z through gen-x) it's nearly all socialists and left- or off-the-spectrum-anarchists[EDIT: probably a couple would identify, specifically, as left-libertarian, now that I think about it, which is very unlike right-libertarian—at least one of those might pointedly insist on just calling the left-libertarian position "liberal"]. That's my bubble, though, and doesn't reflect the proportions for the rest of the country. [EDIT] Maybe we have different thresholds or definitions of "socialist"? I'd believe that over half of Gen Z wants a "public option" for healthcare, and maybe even M4A, for instance. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some Gen Z Trumpers want those (Trump did, oddly enough, give some lip-service to reform in that direction in his campaigns, though not to M4A)
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    I think it makes a difference in perception, because 31% is less than a third. Left-leaning Gen-Z voters essentially form a super-majority in their demographic.
jjk166 5y ago
In 2016, the oldest gen Zers were turning 18. Everyone 19-24 in that age range would have been millennials. Also many Trump supporters are libertarians.

havkd 5y ago

First, that depends on your circles. Second, many people turn to the right as they mature.

keewee7 5y ago
Unfortunately people's political positions today are more static because of social media bubbles.
- laurent92 5y ago
  Source? This seems like an estimation based on people around you; In my surroundings, people shifted from moderate to the extremes both sides, and I moved from center-left to stark right.

thereddaikon 5y ago

Actual socialists had secret police. Every government has intelligence services. What do you think being a socialist means and what does that have to do with working for the CIA?

bitwize 5y ago
Working for the CIA means submitting to and supporting the existing power structure (unless you're doing a long-march-through-the-institutions, subversion-from-within thing, which, good luck against the CIA). Now once the socialist regime sets up secret police, it will be utterly benevolent and work solely toward emancipation of the working class.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  ...unless you're doing a long-march-through-the-institutions, subversion-from-within thing, which, good luck against the CIA... How can we be sure this hasn't happened already? Could anyone imagine a less effective, more hated organization? Could CIA provide poorer intelligence to the executive if they were actually trying to provide poor intelligence? Could their actions reflect more poorly on USA if they were actually trying to tarnish our reputation? [EDIT:] Perhaps this just proves your point. Continued existence of something like CIA in a putatively democratic society is a mystery. Perhaps they practice a sort of continuous self-disruption, defending themselves from the attentions of better people by always getting worse?
handrous 5y ago
Most folks throwing around "socialist" in a positive light in the US mean it like "social democracy", as in the Nordics or various European social-democratic parties. The socialist-socialists—having known a few—usually just say Marxist or communist to describe their position, in my experience. "Socialist" only means "like Venezuela or East Germany" when a Republican is saying it, not when people self-describe as socialist. [EDIT] and yes, to head it off, even Norway has intelligence services, sure—but they don't have Stasi.
- 5y ago

oh_sigh 5y ago

Ok zoomer

mcguire 5y ago

Wait, I thought all the Gen Z's were living with their parents, unemployed, and desperate for an income to pay off their student loans.

nebula8804 5y ago
Thats Millenials. They got hit with the GFC as they were leaving college and then COVID hit as soon as they clawed their way out of the GFC to buy a house/start families. This is in contrast to Boomers(their parents) who had excellent financial prospects growing up. To make things worse, they pinned their hopes on Obama's "Hope and change" which was a complete sham. Gen Z had no illusions that this was a fair world from the get go. They got converted to pessimism early since their parents (Gen X) were the first gen after boomers to have an overall decline. A large chunk supported Bernie and watching him get trampled and robbed in 2020 allowed them to see how the world really works early on! The rest of the non-Bernie gen-Z are typically rural(but not always) watching far right junk like Ben Shapiro. I see a lot of youtubers in riral areas that fight for Trump/newish right wingers to the party. On the plus side while Gen X was a desert in terms of progressives(probably because Boomers stamped them out early on) Millennials and to a greater extend Gen-Z have a lot of energetic fresh blood in the pipeline to shift the country far left. I saw with my own eyes how hard they pushed during the 2020 primaries to replace as many incumbents as they could. They mostly fell short but that energy is still there. We are going to see a lot of amazing leftist Gen Z leaders in my opinion.
dang 5y ago
Please don't do generational flamewar here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html p.s. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29181413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29181413 was much much better. Talking about personal experiences usually is.

walshemj 5y ago

I somewhat doubt that more like wet Tories (Eisenhower republican's) There's a lot of "hobbyists" who think they are socialists

missinfo 5y ago

What does it mean?

cwkoss 5y ago
CIA is infamous for using espionage and other tactics to overthrow socialist governments.

jwilber 5y ago

Most Gen Zs in your network.

jollybean 5y ago

Socialism has nothing to do with one's propensity to be a part of security apparatus, and, I suspect you're basically wrong about 'your generation'. More than likely, all of your friends fit that description (and your projecting), and, you're failing to take into consideration that people change perspective as they get older and wiser. Also, GenZ are basically still children, they're not even out of school. So whatever they believe has to be contextualized strongly by that.

m0zg 5y ago

My son is Gen Z. From what he has shown me in his chats his (rather large) peer group is based AF. That's in the bluest part of a deep blue state. I can only imagine what they're chatting about in the Rust Belt.