4 ms·

Here on HN, downvoted comments become so hard to read I don't even bother. That's effectively censorship. On Reddit, they become automatically hidden and subjec

by noobly 5y ago

Here on HN, downvoted comments become so hard to read I don't even bother. That's effectively censorship. On Reddit, they become automatically hidden and subject to removal. On YT, I'm not sure what happens, but it's possible downvoted videos get treated less favorably by the recommendation and search algorithms. I enjoy 4chans model of posts with more replies generally attracting more attention (similar to sorting by controversial on Reddit). I also like that the dialogue graph there isn't necassarily 'tree shaped' and it's easier to reply to comments across a thread.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
On HN, if you click on the timestamp -- voila -- it's perfectly readable again, no matter how greyed out. They grey it out because they don't show the count. They used to, back in the early days, and it just promoted stupid arguments. Greying it out is an elegant solution that plays well with local culture where some people will provide corrective upvotes if they think the comment doesn't deserve that.
- noobly 5y ago
  I didn't know that, thanks. It does still require following the link to view it plainly, which is a slight deterrent, but that's a lot more balanced than I initially thought.
  - throwamon 5y ago
    Let me introduce you to this amazing technology called text selection. It works amazingly well for making text readable.
    - noobly 5y ago
      You mean highlighting? It's still hard to read. And copying pasting is too much work. It all ends up being a form of censorship, for better or worse.
systemvoltage 5y ago
Downvoting on HN is poorly implemented. It should take an hour or so after the initial flood of votes before showing to the rest whether it is upvoted or downvoted. It is essentially encouraging 'bandwagoning' phenomenon - "Others have thought this out for me, I'll just downvote it and move on" instead of giving the comment a fair chance especially if it is disagreeing with constructivism and civility. The most eggregious abuse on HN is flagging things that don't deserve it. Comments about inflation a few months ago were being flagged constantly or categorized as 'right-wing'. That's straight up censorship since the content disappears for most users who don't know the show-dead option in settings. Flagging is great for spam and rude comments - I am down for that.
- noobly 5y ago
  edit: Sorry for the rambling, I've just had too much gin, but this stuff has been bothering me lately. Agree across the board. Given that internet dialogue hugely influences our thoughts today, I think the importance of the tools, platforms and/or form used to discuss things is an underrated consideration. Especially with 'misinformation' or truth wars taking place today. I think that's gonna be one of the biggest problems that needs to be solved but no ones talking about it. I would love to somehow live in a world where the information delivered to me and others was true and not misleading, only trying to accurately convey the info at hand, and not cherrypicking or manipulating. Essentially life without propaganda or lies. I don't want to spend life either sorting through propaganda to find obfuscated truth or simply accepting the dominant consensus. Sadly I don't know how someone could ever solve this without deciding who the (corruptible) arbiters of truth are. I wish we lived in a world where our individual incentives aligned with what brings out the best both ourselves and others. I have been getting sad lately feeling like there will always be a monopoly on truth and violence, a monopoly on reality, and it will never have our best interest at the center of its heart. 'Science' is seen as the answer, the ultimate objective arbiter of truth but sadly it's an abused buzzword and has become an authority figure with followers that obey its consensus. The scientific process is diametrically opposed to accepting consensus and is about falsifying hypothesis. Today studies are sponsored by corporations that have already defined what they want to conclude and this is accepted in the public sphere as a source of truth, despite the infamous 'replication crisis' also being known in the public sphere. How do you trust experts that don't trust themselves, or have incentives that work against you? I just feel like I've lost all hope until I see a reasonable solution on the horizon. >inb4 just buy chainlink

by noobly 5y ago

DoreenMichele 5y ago

On HN, if you click on the timestamp -- voila -- it's perfectly readable again, no matter how greyed out. They grey it out because they don't show the count. They used to, back in the early days, and it just promoted stupid arguments. Greying it out is an elegant solution that plays well with local culture where some people will provide corrective upvotes if they think the comment doesn't deserve that.

noobly 5y ago
I didn't know that, thanks. It does still require following the link to view it plainly, which is a slight deterrent, but that's a lot more balanced than I initially thought.
- throwamon 5y ago
  Let me introduce you to this amazing technology called text selection. It works amazingly well for making text readable.
  - noobly 5y ago
    You mean highlighting? It's still hard to read. And copying pasting is too much work. It all ends up being a form of censorship, for better or worse.

systemvoltage 5y ago

Downvoting on HN is poorly implemented. It should take an hour or so after the initial flood of votes before showing to the rest whether it is upvoted or downvoted. It is essentially encouraging 'bandwagoning' phenomenon - "Others have thought this out for me, I'll just downvote it and move on" instead of giving the comment a fair chance especially if it is disagreeing with constructivism and civility. The most eggregious abuse on HN is flagging things that don't deserve it. Comments about inflation a few months ago were being flagged constantly or categorized as 'right-wing'. That's straight up censorship since the content disappears for most users who don't know the show-dead option in settings. Flagging is great for spam and rude comments - I am down for that.

noobly 5y ago
edit: Sorry for the rambling, I've just had too much gin, but this stuff has been bothering me lately. Agree across the board. Given that internet dialogue hugely influences our thoughts today, I think the importance of the tools, platforms and/or form used to discuss things is an underrated consideration. Especially with 'misinformation' or truth wars taking place today. I think that's gonna be one of the biggest problems that needs to be solved but no ones talking about it. I would love to somehow live in a world where the information delivered to me and others was true and not misleading, only trying to accurately convey the info at hand, and not cherrypicking or manipulating. Essentially life without propaganda or lies. I don't want to spend life either sorting through propaganda to find obfuscated truth or simply accepting the dominant consensus. Sadly I don't know how someone could ever solve this without deciding who the (corruptible) arbiters of truth are. I wish we lived in a world where our individual incentives aligned with what brings out the best both ourselves and others. I have been getting sad lately feeling like there will always be a monopoly on truth and violence, a monopoly on reality, and it will never have our best interest at the center of its heart. 'Science' is seen as the answer, the ultimate objective arbiter of truth but sadly it's an abused buzzword and has become an authority figure with followers that obey its consensus. The scientific process is diametrically opposed to accepting consensus and is about falsifying hypothesis. Today studies are sponsored by corporations that have already defined what they want to conclude and this is accepted in the public sphere as a source of truth, despite the infamous 'replication crisis' also being known in the public sphere. How do you trust experts that don't trust themselves, or have incentives that work against you? I just feel like I've lost all hope until I see a reasonable solution on the horizon. >inb4 just buy chainlink