8 ms·

Good point. Honestly I don't think that uber should allow drivers to use any vehicles not equipped for wheel chair transport. The discrimination and inequity, a

by kyleee 5y ago

Good point. Honestly I don't think that uber should allow drivers to use any vehicles not equipped for wheel chair transport. The discrimination and inequity, as you've noted, runs very deep with uber and indeed many other companies

handrous 5y ago
How do normal taxi services handle this? I really have no idea. I assume better, since they'd have already dealt with these sorts of suits decades ago if they didn't.
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  I looked into buying a taxi medallion recently - they are historically very cheap and would dramatically increase in value if Uber and Lyft fail. Turns out that there are a lot of financial incentives available from city/state/federal governments for attaching the taxi medallion to a wheelchair-accessible vehicle.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  For wheelchairs, in DC and the suburbs (VA and MD), the customer calls and asks for a wheelchair-accessible taxi. IIRC, taxi fleets are required to maintain a certain % of the fleet as wheelchair-accessible. Wait times for dispatch can be quite long. In DC, there's an initial fee (charged for the pickup and first 1/8 mile). Additional wait-time fees start accruing after 5 minutes. Mileage/time fees then get added by the meter as the ride progresses. This formula applies to all taxis - wheelchair or not.
  - rjzzleep 5y ago
    Does it cost the same? I'm all for charging everyone the same, but just seeing how it was in the family, helping the wheelchair person into the car, it's not an easy task. Of course I don't think that the complaint here is only about wheelchairs.
    - alistairSH 5y ago
      Yes, cost to consumer is the same, by regulation. Maintaining part of the fleet as handicapped-accessible is just part of doing business, despite the additional costs associated with acquiring/maintaining wheelchair-accessible vehicles (usually vans or buses with hydraulic lifts/ramps).
- andylynch 5y ago
  Depends on the city. Some make it a mandatory part of having a licensed cab.
newsclues 5y ago
If Uber needs to mandate all vehicles must be equipped for disabled people, then costs will go up and non disabled people who are low income will suffer the increase in costs to accommodate disabled people. By trying to be fair to specific groups, you tend to make things unfair for others.
- rayiner 5y ago
  And accommodating small minorities with outsized needs often generates the greatest unfairness to others.
  - vageli 5y ago
    Reminds me of the time when Berkeley deleted their online content. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/03/06/u-california-berkeley-delete-publicly-available-educational-content https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/03/06/u-california-...
- podgaj 5y ago
  Then maybe we should change something more fundamental? Like maybe not have an economic system that depends on some false notion of social darwinism?
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Skinner! It’s not that policy is well intentioned but flawed, no it’s fundamental systemic inequality! Haha
InitialLastName 5y ago
This is a good case of perfect being the enemy of better. Why should Uber (and, by extension both drivers and users) be forced to treat all users as if they are the most expensive users? Assuming that 10% (WAG) of Uber cars are currently wheelchair-accessible, and a rule like that doubles the number of wheelchair-accessible Uber cars, you've cut your total supply by 80% to satisfy a small percentage of users (and in doing so made the experience worse for those users as well, because they are now competing for a smaller supply).
- podgaj 5y ago
  > Why should Uber (and, by extension both drivers and users) be forced to treat all users as if they are the most expensive users? It's about kindness. These companies want to treat ALL customers as the least expensive user. Don't you realize that this demeans YOU and much s it does the disabled?
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    Sure, and I agree that Uber should be ensuring sufficient supply of wheelchair-accessible vehicles, but this is really another place where Uber's model (treat their drivers like independent companies whenever it is convenient to Uber) falls apart.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  > 10% (WAG) of Uber cars are currently wheelchair-accessible I'd be surprised if it were even 1%. As far as I'm aware, stock passenger vehicles are never wheelchair accessible -- it requires some expensive aftermarket hardware to be installed.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    Sure, I just made up a number in the tail to make the point, hence the "Wild-Ass Guess" in the tail (I need a better flag for "estimate for numerical simplicity only"-type numbers).
GaryTang 5y ago
> “I don't think that uber should allow drivers to use any vehicles not equipped for wheel chair transport” Poor and handicap people will suffer more so from a price hike resulting from your suggestion — disabled people should just pay more because (1)they are taking up more time to service and (2)they receive benefits that everyone else doesn’t to compensate for such scenarios. The way it is currently setup is likely the most optimal configuration for all parties involved.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  "I got mine, screw the rest of y'all" If we used your plan, there would be no taxis for the disabled because the costs would be prohibitive. This isn't really any different than any other similar legislation/regulation (ADA, etc).
  - GaryTang 5y ago
    > “There would be no taxis for the disabled because the costs would be prohibitive.” This is 100% false because I know for a fact if there was no other taxi company providing services to the disabled I would start my own company for the disabled today.
    - jedberg 5y ago
      No you wouldn't. You would quickly find that the market is too small to be worthwhile. There is a reason the ADA exists. Because before then, everyone assumed businesses would cater to disabled people because they wouldn't want to lose out on the business. But it turns out they are such a small market, it doesn't affect their bottom line.
      - GaryTang 5y ago
        > ”You would quickly find that the market is too small to be worthwhile.” How many markets will be too small to be worthwhile after prices increase? I would wager it would be more than the contrary
mushufasa 5y ago
Regular taxis have this. It's probably one of the contributing reasons why taxis are more expensive than uber on average.
raisedbyninjas 5y ago
There is no way this would work. This would limit uber vehicles to at least a modified minivan. Most school buses and public transport buses are not wheelchair accessible. Those orgs have specialized vehicles that can be dispatched as needed. It's fine to require the same of Uber.
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  I can't remember that last time I saw a public transport bus that wasn't wheelchair accessible. It may not be completely obvious, but the floor at the front of the bus flips out onto the sidewalk and the air suspension lowers the bus to make it level. The front seats fold up to reveal a wheelchair area, complete with belts and attachment points to keep a wheelchair safely in place.
- andylynch 5y ago
  Not at all- for example, London taxis are wheelchair accessible as standard.
  - whymauri 5y ago
    Just looked it up and it's true -- this is actually pretty cool!
goatlover 5y ago
Wouldn't that rule out most drivers, since most drivers don't have wheel chair ramps in their vehicles?
oliv__ 5y ago
How about a button in the app that says "I need a wheelchair-accessible car".
- kyleee 5y ago
  That would work for me as long as wait times were within reason. I think it could be accomplished with some well crafted earnings incentives to drive for Uber with a wheelchair accessible vehicle

by kyleee 5y ago

handrous 5y ago

How do normal taxi services handle this? I really have no idea. I assume better, since they'd have already dealt with these sorts of suits decades ago if they didn't.

OldHand2018 5y ago
I looked into buying a taxi medallion recently - they are historically very cheap and would dramatically increase in value if Uber and Lyft fail. Turns out that there are a lot of financial incentives available from city/state/federal governments for attaching the taxi medallion to a wheelchair-accessible vehicle.
alistairSH 5y ago
For wheelchairs, in DC and the suburbs (VA and MD), the customer calls and asks for a wheelchair-accessible taxi. IIRC, taxi fleets are required to maintain a certain % of the fleet as wheelchair-accessible. Wait times for dispatch can be quite long. In DC, there's an initial fee (charged for the pickup and first 1/8 mile). Additional wait-time fees start accruing after 5 minutes. Mileage/time fees then get added by the meter as the ride progresses. This formula applies to all taxis - wheelchair or not.
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  Does it cost the same? I'm all for charging everyone the same, but just seeing how it was in the family, helping the wheelchair person into the car, it's not an easy task. Of course I don't think that the complaint here is only about wheelchairs.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    Yes, cost to consumer is the same, by regulation. Maintaining part of the fleet as handicapped-accessible is just part of doing business, despite the additional costs associated with acquiring/maintaining wheelchair-accessible vehicles (usually vans or buses with hydraulic lifts/ramps).
andylynch 5y ago
Depends on the city. Some make it a mandatory part of having a licensed cab.

newsclues 5y ago

If Uber needs to mandate all vehicles must be equipped for disabled people, then costs will go up and non disabled people who are low income will suffer the increase in costs to accommodate disabled people. By trying to be fair to specific groups, you tend to make things unfair for others.

rayiner 5y ago
And accommodating small minorities with outsized needs often generates the greatest unfairness to others.
- vageli 5y ago
  Reminds me of the time when Berkeley deleted their online content. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/03/06/u-california-berkeley-delete-publicly-available-educational-content https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/03/06/u-california-...
podgaj 5y ago
Then maybe we should change something more fundamental? Like maybe not have an economic system that depends on some false notion of social darwinism?
- newsclues 5y ago
  Skinner! It’s not that policy is well intentioned but flawed, no it’s fundamental systemic inequality! Haha

InitialLastName 5y ago

This is a good case of perfect being the enemy of better. Why should Uber (and, by extension both drivers and users) be forced to treat all users as if they are the most expensive users? Assuming that 10% (WAG) of Uber cars are currently wheelchair-accessible, and a rule like that doubles the number of wheelchair-accessible Uber cars, you've cut your total supply by 80% to satisfy a small percentage of users (and in doing so made the experience worse for those users as well, because they are now competing for a smaller supply).

podgaj 5y ago
> Why should Uber (and, by extension both drivers and users) be forced to treat all users as if they are the most expensive users? It's about kindness. These companies want to treat ALL customers as the least expensive user. Don't you realize that this demeans YOU and much s it does the disabled?
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  Sure, and I agree that Uber should be ensuring sufficient supply of wheelchair-accessible vehicles, but this is really another place where Uber's model (treat their drivers like independent companies whenever it is convenient to Uber) falls apart.
duskwuff 5y ago
> 10% (WAG) of Uber cars are currently wheelchair-accessible I'd be surprised if it were even 1%. As far as I'm aware, stock passenger vehicles are never wheelchair accessible -- it requires some expensive aftermarket hardware to be installed.
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  Sure, I just made up a number in the tail to make the point, hence the "Wild-Ass Guess" in the tail (I need a better flag for "estimate for numerical simplicity only"-type numbers).

GaryTang 5y ago

> “I don't think that uber should allow drivers to use any vehicles not equipped for wheel chair transport” Poor and handicap people will suffer more so from a price hike resulting from your suggestion — disabled people should just pay more because (1)they are taking up more time to service and (2)they receive benefits that everyone else doesn’t to compensate for such scenarios. The way it is currently setup is likely the most optimal configuration for all parties involved.

alistairSH 5y ago
"I got mine, screw the rest of y'all" If we used your plan, there would be no taxis for the disabled because the costs would be prohibitive. This isn't really any different than any other similar legislation/regulation (ADA, etc).
- GaryTang 5y ago
  > “There would be no taxis for the disabled because the costs would be prohibitive.” This is 100% false because I know for a fact if there was no other taxi company providing services to the disabled I would start my own company for the disabled today.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    No you wouldn't. You would quickly find that the market is too small to be worthwhile. There is a reason the ADA exists. Because before then, everyone assumed businesses would cater to disabled people because they wouldn't want to lose out on the business. But it turns out they are such a small market, it doesn't affect their bottom line.
    - GaryTang 5y ago
      > ”You would quickly find that the market is too small to be worthwhile.” How many markets will be too small to be worthwhile after prices increase? I would wager it would be more than the contrary

mushufasa 5y ago

Regular taxis have this. It's probably one of the contributing reasons why taxis are more expensive than uber on average.

raisedbyninjas 5y ago

There is no way this would work. This would limit uber vehicles to at least a modified minivan. Most school buses and public transport buses are not wheelchair accessible. Those orgs have specialized vehicles that can be dispatched as needed. It's fine to require the same of Uber.

OldHand2018 5y ago
I can't remember that last time I saw a public transport bus that wasn't wheelchair accessible. It may not be completely obvious, but the floor at the front of the bus flips out onto the sidewalk and the air suspension lowers the bus to make it level. The front seats fold up to reveal a wheelchair area, complete with belts and attachment points to keep a wheelchair safely in place.
andylynch 5y ago
Not at all- for example, London taxis are wheelchair accessible as standard.
- whymauri 5y ago
  Just looked it up and it's true -- this is actually pretty cool!

goatlover 5y ago

Wouldn't that rule out most drivers, since most drivers don't have wheel chair ramps in their vehicles?

oliv__ 5y ago

How about a button in the app that says "I need a wheelchair-accessible car".

kyleee 5y ago
That would work for me as long as wait times were within reason. I think it could be accomplished with some well crafted earnings incentives to drive for Uber with a wheelchair accessible vehicle