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Nonsense, Creators have been able to hide their likes and dislikes for years. This is a global change that cannot be opted out of.

by zkldi 5y ago

notriddle 5y ago
The problem with that is, as mentioned in other comments here, most of the people who hide likes/dislikes are just propaganda outlets and fragile jerks whose videos are crap. YouTube is a success because normally the system works. But, unfortunately, the system doesn't always work, and when it fails, it's usually because you're being actively targeted and the system isn't doing anything to stop it. So you're stuck between "leave the like bar visible, and nobody watches my videos because state actors are using bots to dislike my videos" and "hide the like bar, and nobody watches my videos because most people who hide their like bar are asshats." Either way, nobody watches your videos, and it doesn't necessarily mean your videos suck. In other words, nobody hides the like bar unless they are either being massively downvoted, or they expect to be massively downvoted. Which means that a hidden like bar might as well be 100% red.
- zkldi 5y ago
  > "hide the like bar, and nobody watches my videos because most people who hide their like bar are asshats." Why do you think that is the case? It's probably because the actual cases of people being dislike mobbed are *way* rarer than the case of people wanting to hide that their content is garbage.
  - notriddle 5y ago
    Yes, that’s true. It’s literally what I said. But that doesn’t mean dislike mobbing doesn’t happen, or that it shouldn’t be addressed.
summerlight 5y ago
As I stated in a follow up comment, this change explicitly targets the trolling dynamic as whole, not just giving individual some controls. Most creators (and trolls as well) don't even know that option exists, so that option alone doesn't do anything meaningful. As always, the default option is what really matters. I personally suspect that this is a step toward removing the dislike button at all (which is an obvious way to eliminate this attack vector) but they're just not ready to remove the button due to some other factors.
- choward 5y ago
  > Most creators (and trolls as well) don't even know that option exists, so that option alone doesn't do anything meaningful. So we're going to fix a UI fail by censoring dislikes on every video? How about just making the option more apparent as your posting a video? Why should everyone be deprived of a feature just because some people don't know another feature exists? This logic is baffling to me. > I personally suspect that this is a step toward removing the dislike button at all (which is an obvious way to eliminate this attack vector) but they're just not ready to remove the button due to some other factors. And now you just admitted you don't think it's just because people don't know that option exists. I honestly don't know what you're position is besides that whatever Google does must be right.
  - summerlight 5y ago
    > How about just making the option more apparent as your posting a video? Of course, the option will still have a default setting even with that modification. That doesn't change anything. I'll say again; in an amortized platform level, only default option matters. Other "choice" won't make any dent. One counterfactual scenario: YT decided to make # of dislike visible only for creators who opts in and now 99.999% of videos don't show it. If you're 100% happy with that situation, then I can respect your opinion. > Why should everyone be deprived of a feature just because some people don't know another feature exists? It's not because some people don't know some feature exists. It's because the platform is the one who make the overall incentive structure for user behaviors. YT completely failed in this area and now they're trying to fix that. Of course you have your right to complain, but to me the trade-off seems obvious given that creators have been being harassed for years while you have a minor inconvenience. > And now you just admitted you don't think it's just because people don't know that option exists Where does this baffling logical jump come from? In many studies, dislike buttons have been proven to be a strong source of negative user behaviors, so it's a fairly natural conjecture that YT is trying to get rid of that button in the end state. And the fact that most users don't really know or care about the visible dislike # options simply refutes "but they had a choice and it's their choice!" argument. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by connecting two logically unrelated sentences. Isn't this a textbook example of straw man fallacy? > I honestly don't know what you're position is besides that whatever Google does must be right. Obviously this is something I would expect from HN comments, but outside of HN please don't make this kind of low level mockery on someone else you don't really know. It only makes you miserable, especially when you demonstratively don't understand my arguments.

Nonsense, Creators have been able to hide their likes and dislikes for years. This is a global change that cannot be opted out of.

by zkldi 5y ago

Nonsense, Creators have been able to hide their likes and dislikes for years. This is a global change that cannot be opted out of.

notriddle 5y ago

The problem with that is, as mentioned in other comments here, most of the people who hide likes/dislikes are just propaganda outlets and fragile jerks whose videos are crap. YouTube is a success because normally the system works. But, unfortunately, the system doesn't always work, and when it fails, it's usually because you're being actively targeted and the system isn't doing anything to stop it. So you're stuck between "leave the like bar visible, and nobody watches my videos because state actors are using bots to dislike my videos" and "hide the like bar, and nobody watches my videos because most people who hide their like bar are asshats." Either way, nobody watches your videos, and it doesn't necessarily mean your videos suck. In other words, nobody hides the like bar unless they are either being massively downvoted, or they expect to be massively downvoted. Which means that a hidden like bar might as well be 100% red.

zkldi 5y ago
> "hide the like bar, and nobody watches my videos because most people who hide their like bar are asshats." Why do you think that is the case? It's probably because the actual cases of people being dislike mobbed are *way* rarer than the case of people wanting to hide that their content is garbage.
- notriddle 5y ago
  Yes, that’s true. It’s literally what I said. But that doesn’t mean dislike mobbing doesn’t happen, or that it shouldn’t be addressed.

summerlight 5y ago

As I stated in a follow up comment, this change explicitly targets the trolling dynamic as whole, not just giving individual some controls. Most creators (and trolls as well) don't even know that option exists, so that option alone doesn't do anything meaningful. As always, the default option is what really matters. I personally suspect that this is a step toward removing the dislike button at all (which is an obvious way to eliminate this attack vector) but they're just not ready to remove the button due to some other factors.

choward 5y ago
> Most creators (and trolls as well) don't even know that option exists, so that option alone doesn't do anything meaningful. So we're going to fix a UI fail by censoring dislikes on every video? How about just making the option more apparent as your posting a video? Why should everyone be deprived of a feature just because some people don't know another feature exists? This logic is baffling to me. > I personally suspect that this is a step toward removing the dislike button at all (which is an obvious way to eliminate this attack vector) but they're just not ready to remove the button due to some other factors. And now you just admitted you don't think it's just because people don't know that option exists. I honestly don't know what you're position is besides that whatever Google does must be right.
- summerlight 5y ago
  > How about just making the option more apparent as your posting a video? Of course, the option will still have a default setting even with that modification. That doesn't change anything. I'll say again; in an amortized platform level, only default option matters. Other "choice" won't make any dent. One counterfactual scenario: YT decided to make # of dislike visible only for creators who opts in and now 99.999% of videos don't show it. If you're 100% happy with that situation, then I can respect your opinion. > Why should everyone be deprived of a feature just because some people don't know another feature exists? It's not because some people don't know some feature exists. It's because the platform is the one who make the overall incentive structure for user behaviors. YT completely failed in this area and now they're trying to fix that. Of course you have your right to complain, but to me the trade-off seems obvious given that creators have been being harassed for years while you have a minor inconvenience. > And now you just admitted you don't think it's just because people don't know that option exists Where does this baffling logical jump come from? In many studies, dislike buttons have been proven to be a strong source of negative user behaviors, so it's a fairly natural conjecture that YT is trying to get rid of that button in the end state. And the fact that most users don't really know or care about the visible dislike # options simply refutes "but they had a choice and it's their choice!" argument. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by connecting two logically unrelated sentences. Isn't this a textbook example of straw man fallacy? > I honestly don't know what you're position is besides that whatever Google does must be right. Obviously this is something I would expect from HN comments, but outside of HN please don't make this kind of low level mockery on someone else you don't really know. It only makes you miserable, especially when you demonstratively don't understand my arguments.