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To have full rights in a civilised society, you need to prove that you can be a good citizen first. What's wrong with that?

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> To have full rights in a civilised society, you need to prove that you can be a good citizen first. What's wrong with that? That’s literally not the case anywhere though. Maybe China’s social credit system, maybe, but even then I think you start with a presumed “innocence”. I can’t think of any system of rights that are afforded after evidence merit and not birth. That’s not what rights are. Not going to ask you what full rights means, as it implies you consider rights a gift from a government and not restrictions on a government.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  How about driving licenses?
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    Privilege, not a right.
    - jonnycomputer 5y ago
      When is a thing merely a privilege, and not a right? Particularly when both can be conditional or qualified? I'm not sure this isn't playing a game of semantics--just because its called a privilege and not a right in the American context, does not mean that an argument that driving is not a right and merely a privilege.
      - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
        Rights are restrictions people have placed on the government or has imposed on itself, as enumerated in say, a charter or constitution. These are not gifts from the government as list of things you can do, but a list of things they can’t do. Bestowed on birth, and infringed upon only when necessary as agreed upon by the people for reasons. Privileges are features that may be taken for granted as rights but are not enumerated protections. You have no right to drive, it’s a privilege that we all agree is handy. I don’t think you are playing with semantics, but this is not a difficult concept. GP makes a completely baseless claim that you don’t have “full rights” until someone says you do. They are talking about privledges.
- gowld 5y ago
  Downvoting is a privilege, not a right. Like driving a car on a public road. Don't nitpick words, speak to the main point.
lovethyenemy 5y ago
Guilty until proven innocent is an incompatible maxim for civilised society.
- aeternum 5y ago
  Parent said full rights. Some rights must be earned or granted after some time period. A society that immediately gave children the right to drive and carry handguns would likely not stay civilized for long.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

> To have full rights in a civilised society, you need to prove that you can be a good citizen first. What's wrong with that? That’s literally not the case anywhere though. Maybe China’s social credit system, maybe, but even then I think you start with a presumed “innocence”. I can’t think of any system of rights that are afforded after evidence merit and not birth. That’s not what rights are. Not going to ask you what full rights means, as it implies you consider rights a gift from a government and not restrictions on a government.

jonnycomputer 5y ago
How about driving licenses?
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Privilege, not a right.
  - jonnycomputer 5y ago
    When is a thing merely a privilege, and not a right? Particularly when both can be conditional or qualified? I'm not sure this isn't playing a game of semantics--just because its called a privilege and not a right in the American context, does not mean that an argument that driving is not a right and merely a privilege.
    - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
      Rights are restrictions people have placed on the government or has imposed on itself, as enumerated in say, a charter or constitution. These are not gifts from the government as list of things you can do, but a list of things they can’t do. Bestowed on birth, and infringed upon only when necessary as agreed upon by the people for reasons. Privileges are features that may be taken for granted as rights but are not enumerated protections. You have no right to drive, it’s a privilege that we all agree is handy. I don’t think you are playing with semantics, but this is not a difficult concept. GP makes a completely baseless claim that you don’t have “full rights” until someone says you do. They are talking about privledges.
gowld 5y ago
Downvoting is a privilege, not a right. Like driving a car on a public road. Don't nitpick words, speak to the main point.

lovethyenemy 5y ago

Guilty until proven innocent is an incompatible maxim for civilised society.

aeternum 5y ago
Parent said full rights. Some rights must be earned or granted after some time period. A society that immediately gave children the right to drive and carry handguns would likely not stay civilized for long.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]