3 ms·

What do you think schools should do? I teach at a school (K-12), and there's definitely circumvention of technical controls at the high school level. But I ca

by mlyle 5y ago

What do you think schools should do? I teach at a school (K-12), and there's definitely circumvention of technical controls at the high school level. But I can't help but think we're a whole better off because of the filtering.

anonAndOn 5y ago
DNS filtering (pi-hole is great here), scheduled vLAN time of use shutoffs (no after school shenanigans), obvious blacklists and ip request logging + pop-up warning are probably good enough for 95% of kids.
- mlyle 5y ago
  We use Meraki (huge wireless deployment, so it makes a lot of sense to just use their gateway and call it good) with their blacklists. Biggest problem is it considers too many things "gaming" and needs exceptions-- e.g. lichess and chess.com are OK. Authentication and logging are pretty good. Rateshaping students to have enough bandwidth to do schoolwork but not to have wonderful connectivity (campus has a 2gbps symmetric connection, but we only give students 4-5 megabits/sec over wifi most places on campus) is also a part of the picture.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Whitelists. It's kind of a pain, but might help reign in the teachers that send kids everywhere on the internet without much thought about the surveillance dangers.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    MS and HS students are expected to be able to independently browse the internet to do research-- this doesn't work with whitelisting. (And in elementary, there's good human supervision of technology use).
    - oriki 5y ago
      This, not to mention it seems somewhat unproductive to lock off 99% of the internet because of information collection instead of teaching how to defeat those collectors. The kid's going to grow up and leave eventually and will have to contend with the full internet, it doesn't feel like a good idea to leave them without any experience of the kind of things you can run in to.
      - mixmastamyk 5y ago
        Kids don't get any "experience" contending with surveillance. It is all done behind your back, on purpose. Results are never deleted. Certainly schools are not even attempting to teach countermeasures. They tend to dabble in the "be aware of bullying and self-esteem" issues, but are completely outmatched in the security arena. Ignore at your peril.
        mlyle 5y ago
        We, at least, spend a fair bit of time on: - Advertising and dark patterns - What else can be inferred about you from seemingly innocuous information, and potential misuse - Durability of your digital footprint - Security, file types, etc. Education doesn't fix these issues, though. Even well-educated developers would often give up and click 'Allow' on a modal privilege escalation box that pops up repeatedly in research. And if I need to get something done and it doesn't work I'm pretty quick to re-enable scripts and tracking.
        mixmastamyk 5y ago
        Knowing these thing exist is a great first step, and glad to hear you are helping out. But, it doesn't become a concrete, visceral thing until you inspect a no-script menu while browsing a news site. Or run Little Snitch on a freshly unboxed Mac. Or going to a "white pages" site and see the last four addresses of your family members. Salary info, current whereabouts, criminal history, are a fee away. It's a different world.
- rnotaro 5y ago
  Then they will probably use their Data Plan if they have one to get around it.
Damogran6 5y ago
You're obligated to block, because you're responsible for giving it to them and you have to deal with the population as a whole. I based my decisions on my kid's temperament. You don't have that luxury. It doesn't mean you'll be in any way effective. By the same token, we block this kind of traffic at work...all it ended up doing was pushing the negative traffic to employee's cellphones. Which is fine, because it makes the office network safer.

by mlyle 5y ago

anonAndOn 5y ago

DNS filtering (pi-hole is great here), scheduled vLAN time of use shutoffs (no after school shenanigans), obvious blacklists and ip request logging + pop-up warning are probably good enough for 95% of kids.

mlyle 5y ago
We use Meraki (huge wireless deployment, so it makes a lot of sense to just use their gateway and call it good) with their blacklists. Biggest problem is it considers too many things "gaming" and needs exceptions-- e.g. lichess and chess.com are OK. Authentication and logging are pretty good. Rateshaping students to have enough bandwidth to do schoolwork but not to have wonderful connectivity (campus has a 2gbps symmetric connection, but we only give students 4-5 megabits/sec over wifi most places on campus) is also a part of the picture.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Whitelists. It's kind of a pain, but might help reign in the teachers that send kids everywhere on the internet without much thought about the surveillance dangers.
- mlyle 5y ago
  MS and HS students are expected to be able to independently browse the internet to do research-- this doesn't work with whitelisting. (And in elementary, there's good human supervision of technology use).
  - oriki 5y ago
    This, not to mention it seems somewhat unproductive to lock off 99% of the internet because of information collection instead of teaching how to defeat those collectors. The kid's going to grow up and leave eventually and will have to contend with the full internet, it doesn't feel like a good idea to leave them without any experience of the kind of things you can run in to.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      Kids don't get any "experience" contending with surveillance. It is all done behind your back, on purpose. Results are never deleted. Certainly schools are not even attempting to teach countermeasures. They tend to dabble in the "be aware of bullying and self-esteem" issues, but are completely outmatched in the security arena. Ignore at your peril.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        We, at least, spend a fair bit of time on: - Advertising and dark patterns - What else can be inferred about you from seemingly innocuous information, and potential misuse - Durability of your digital footprint - Security, file types, etc. Education doesn't fix these issues, though. Even well-educated developers would often give up and click 'Allow' on a modal privilege escalation box that pops up repeatedly in research. And if I need to get something done and it doesn't work I'm pretty quick to re-enable scripts and tracking.
        mixmastamyk 5y ago
        Knowing these thing exist is a great first step, and glad to hear you are helping out. But, it doesn't become a concrete, visceral thing until you inspect a no-script menu while browsing a news site. Or run Little Snitch on a freshly unboxed Mac. Or going to a "white pages" site and see the last four addresses of your family members. Salary info, current whereabouts, criminal history, are a fee away. It's a different world.
rnotaro 5y ago
Then they will probably use their Data Plan if they have one to get around it.

Damogran6 5y ago

You're obligated to block, because you're responsible for giving it to them and you have to deal with the population as a whole. I based my decisions on my kid's temperament. You don't have that luxury. It doesn't mean you'll be in any way effective. By the same token, we block this kind of traffic at work...all it ended up doing was pushing the negative traffic to employee's cellphones. Which is fine, because it makes the office network safer.