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Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. They export coconuts and fishing licenses for hard currency, and there is no w

Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. They export coconuts and fishing licenses for hard currency, and there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. So if the same institutions that decided to enable the foundation of the republic of Tuvalu decide to protect Tuvualuan territorial waters as a way to give the Tuvaluan diaspora some source of currency with which to start over where they go, then that is what will be,.

vehbisarikaya 5y ago
They also export .tv domains (e.g., twitch.tv)
- ocschwar 5y ago
  And before that they financed a significant part of their government's budget selling postage stamps to kids like me. Recognized sovereignty can be a source of money in all sorts of ways.
- number6 5y ago
  So they can exist forth on the metaverse.
  - hasmanean 5y ago
    That is a very grim assessment. But yeah they might become the worlds first virtualized state for stateless people.
    - number6 5y ago
      I can already see the Press Release: Meta preserves the Culture and unique Landmarks of Tuvalu on the Metaverse. The State of Tuvalu lives on through the efforts of Meta and is the first fully virtual State.
      - smegger001 5y ago
        i can see the headline now, Tuvalu crashed today after a memory leak in the last unity update caused the citizens clients end render to crash when to many npc were on screen at the same time. a patch for tuavalu should be out soem time in the next few days citizens are not recommended to role back to the previous version as it contains a know zero-day exploit.
      - hasmanean 5y ago
        “We have incorporated their diversity into our own. We are Borg.”
jonathankoren 5y ago
> Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. This is true of every state. If no one recognizes your claims, and then acts with impunity against you, you’re not a state.
- quacked 5y ago
  It is most certainly not true of every state; if no one recognizes your claims, but you can still feed your citizens and defend your borders, you are "a state".
  - handrous 5y ago
    > and then acts with impunity against you
    - vntok 5y ago
      Russia acts with impunity on Ukraine soil, however Ukraine is a state for all definitions of state I could find.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        I don't really care one way or another, but the OP provided 2 stipulations for statehood: > If no one recognizes your claims, and then acts with impunity against you, you’re not a state. Ukraine only fits one.
        notahacker 5y ago
        I believe the point the OP was making is that Ukraine, like many other countries, exists because there are limits to the actions its larger, stronger neighbour is willing and able to take. cf Western Sahara. The international community was not interested in preserving Western Sahara as a state, and so now its entire territory is governed by Morocco, save for some tent cities in a corner of desert the Polisario Front clings to mainly because it'd be bad PR for Morocco to wipe them out.
ashtonkem 5y ago
> there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. You also cannot defend a patch of ocean without some land, at least with current technology. War ships require quite a bit of time in dry dock for fueling, refit, and rearmament. And that's before we consider the subpar fighting capability that crews without shore leave would provide. No, they'd still need to buy or borrow some land, even if they had the hardware to run a moderate navy.
- alksjdalkj 5y ago
  I think the point is even with land there's no way they could actually defend their territory so what difference will it make when their land goes away? They'll be in the same situation they're in now (at least with respect to their sovereignty and existence as a state).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- krallja 5y ago
  How many war ships does Tuvalu own or operate?
  - fy20 5y ago
    One apparently, but it has no armaments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMTSS_Te_Mataili_II_(802) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMTSS_Te_Mataili_II_(802)
- tiagod 5y ago
  Even with the island fully submerged, I suppose the land won't be far enough underwater that you couldn't build a platform or something with foundations.

vehbisarikaya 5y ago

They also export .tv domains (e.g., twitch.tv)

ocschwar 5y ago
And before that they financed a significant part of their government's budget selling postage stamps to kids like me. Recognized sovereignty can be a source of money in all sorts of ways.
number6 5y ago
So they can exist forth on the metaverse.
- hasmanean 5y ago
  That is a very grim assessment. But yeah they might become the worlds first virtualized state for stateless people.
  - number6 5y ago
    I can already see the Press Release: Meta preserves the Culture and unique Landmarks of Tuvalu on the Metaverse. The State of Tuvalu lives on through the efforts of Meta and is the first fully virtual State.
    - smegger001 5y ago
      i can see the headline now, Tuvalu crashed today after a memory leak in the last unity update caused the citizens clients end render to crash when to many npc were on screen at the same time. a patch for tuavalu should be out soem time in the next few days citizens are not recommended to role back to the previous version as it contains a know zero-day exploit.
    - hasmanean 5y ago
      “We have incorporated their diversity into our own. We are Borg.”

jonathankoren 5y ago

> Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. This is true of every state. If no one recognizes your claims, and then acts with impunity against you, you’re not a state.

quacked 5y ago
It is most certainly not true of every state; if no one recognizes your claims, but you can still feed your citizens and defend your borders, you are "a state".
- handrous 5y ago
  > and then acts with impunity against you
  - vntok 5y ago
    Russia acts with impunity on Ukraine soil, however Ukraine is a state for all definitions of state I could find.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      I don't really care one way or another, but the OP provided 2 stipulations for statehood: > If no one recognizes your claims, and then acts with impunity against you, you’re not a state. Ukraine only fits one.
      - notahacker 5y ago
        I believe the point the OP was making is that Ukraine, like many other countries, exists because there are limits to the actions its larger, stronger neighbour is willing and able to take. cf Western Sahara. The international community was not interested in preserving Western Sahara as a state, and so now its entire territory is governed by Morocco, save for some tent cities in a corner of desert the Polisario Front clings to mainly because it'd be bad PR for Morocco to wipe them out.

ashtonkem 5y ago

> there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. You also cannot defend a patch of ocean without some land, at least with current technology. War ships require quite a bit of time in dry dock for fueling, refit, and rearmament. And that's before we consider the subpar fighting capability that crews without shore leave would provide. No, they'd still need to buy or borrow some land, even if they had the hardware to run a moderate navy.

alksjdalkj 5y ago
I think the point is even with land there's no way they could actually defend their territory so what difference will it make when their land goes away? They'll be in the same situation they're in now (at least with respect to their sovereignty and existence as a state).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
krallja 5y ago
How many war ships does Tuvalu own or operate?
- fy20 5y ago
  One apparently, but it has no armaments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMTSS_Te_Mataili_II_(802) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMTSS_Te_Mataili_II_(802)
tiagod 5y ago
Even with the island fully submerged, I suppose the land won't be far enough underwater that you couldn't build a platform or something with foundations.