4 ms·

No. One could probably get away with saying that a decade ago, but not today. They're every bit a software company as they are a hardware company.

mcculley 5y ago
Apple is a systems company. I would not bother with macOS for use on other hardware. I would not buy Apple laptops if not for macOS. For a given feature, the user might not know how much of the implementation was done in software versus hardware. Apple excels at integrating their software with their hardware. I was using Linux on laptops until 2004. When I bought a 12" PowerBook G4 and experienced WiFi, sound, and printing working reliably, I realized I could no longer bother with Linux on laptops. This reliability has suffered lately and I hope they can get it back.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  Perhaps it's time to give Linux on laptops another try? ;)
  - mcculley 5y ago
    Okay, I'll bite. Which distribution works on modern hardware and supports suspend/resume, WiFi, sound, external monitors, and printing without me digging into a config file at every different place I visit? Just to be clear, I have been using Linux since 1992. I am completely comfortable with Linux on the desktop and the server. What I found is that Linux does not deal well with configuration, and configuration on laptops changes daily (or more).
    - shaicoleman 5y ago
      The hardware support is pretty good nowadays, and almost everything works out of the box. There's a few caveats: * Sound works fine in general, but might be a bit buggy with Bluetooth. If you encounter any issues, installing Pipewire reportedly solves most of them. * External monitors works fine, as long as you don't mix HiDPI and LoDPI at the same time. In the future, Wayland should fix this. * HiDPI mostly works, but still requires some config tweaks for a handful of apps. * Suspend/resume still sucks, mainly due to buggy nVidia/AMD graphics drivers. Only the Intel GPU drivers suspend reliably in my experience. * WiFi works flawlessly, especially if you're using the Intel WiFi hardware, which is very common on laptops. * Printing works fine except with Windows-only printers, but they are pretty rare. * Distros don't really matter that much, but you'd might need to update your kernel if you use an LTS distro with newish hardware. The Ubuntu based distros, e.g. Mint/Ubuntu/Pop!_OS are good options and have the largest user base, so it's easiest to find solutions if you encounter any issue. * If you just want to test hardware compatibility, I recommend trying Ubuntu 21.10 on a USB stick. * You'd might want to look at /r/linuxhardware [1] for specific hardware recommendations for your needs. You can also look at the Ubuntu Certified Hardware [2] 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ 2. https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified
      - mcculley 5y ago
        This sounds like 2004.
        shaicoleman 5y ago
        Despite the list of caveats above, the bottom line is that almost everything works out of the box. If I would create a similar list of issues for Windows or macOS, it would be much longer. YMMV, so you might need to try it yourself before making a more informed decision. Testing the hardware support from a USB stick is something that can be done rather quickly.
        mcculley 5y ago
        My current situation is that everything works fine and I have to reboot about once per week. I think I will stay where I am for now.
        jfrunyon 5y ago
        My current situation is that everything works fine and I haven't rebooted in a few months. (I should get around to that soon, there's a new kernel waiting. Or probably a couple.)
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      Literally any.

mcculley 5y ago

Apple is a systems company. I would not bother with macOS for use on other hardware. I would not buy Apple laptops if not for macOS. For a given feature, the user might not know how much of the implementation was done in software versus hardware. Apple excels at integrating their software with their hardware. I was using Linux on laptops until 2004. When I bought a 12" PowerBook G4 and experienced WiFi, sound, and printing working reliably, I realized I could no longer bother with Linux on laptops. This reliability has suffered lately and I hope they can get it back.

jfrunyon 5y ago
Perhaps it's time to give Linux on laptops another try? ;)
- mcculley 5y ago
  Okay, I'll bite. Which distribution works on modern hardware and supports suspend/resume, WiFi, sound, external monitors, and printing without me digging into a config file at every different place I visit? Just to be clear, I have been using Linux since 1992. I am completely comfortable with Linux on the desktop and the server. What I found is that Linux does not deal well with configuration, and configuration on laptops changes daily (or more).
  - shaicoleman 5y ago
    The hardware support is pretty good nowadays, and almost everything works out of the box. There's a few caveats: * Sound works fine in general, but might be a bit buggy with Bluetooth. If you encounter any issues, installing Pipewire reportedly solves most of them. * External monitors works fine, as long as you don't mix HiDPI and LoDPI at the same time. In the future, Wayland should fix this. * HiDPI mostly works, but still requires some config tweaks for a handful of apps. * Suspend/resume still sucks, mainly due to buggy nVidia/AMD graphics drivers. Only the Intel GPU drivers suspend reliably in my experience. * WiFi works flawlessly, especially if you're using the Intel WiFi hardware, which is very common on laptops. * Printing works fine except with Windows-only printers, but they are pretty rare. * Distros don't really matter that much, but you'd might need to update your kernel if you use an LTS distro with newish hardware. The Ubuntu based distros, e.g. Mint/Ubuntu/Pop!_OS are good options and have the largest user base, so it's easiest to find solutions if you encounter any issue. * If you just want to test hardware compatibility, I recommend trying Ubuntu 21.10 on a USB stick. * You'd might want to look at /r/linuxhardware [1] for specific hardware recommendations for your needs. You can also look at the Ubuntu Certified Hardware [2] 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ 2. https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified
    - mcculley 5y ago
      This sounds like 2004.
      - shaicoleman 5y ago
        Despite the list of caveats above, the bottom line is that almost everything works out of the box. If I would create a similar list of issues for Windows or macOS, it would be much longer. YMMV, so you might need to try it yourself before making a more informed decision. Testing the hardware support from a USB stick is something that can be done rather quickly.
        mcculley 5y ago
        My current situation is that everything works fine and I have to reboot about once per week. I think I will stay where I am for now.
        jfrunyon 5y ago
        My current situation is that everything works fine and I haven't rebooted in a few months. (I should get around to that soon, there's a new kernel waiting. Or probably a couple.)
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    Literally any.