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Flutter has massive battery drain issues on macOS and Google appears to be saying that it's unfixable. That kills it for me unfortunately. https://github.com/f

Flutter has massive battery drain issues on macOS and Google appears to be saying that it's unfixable. That kills it for me unfortunately. https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment-673147157 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment...

fabiospampinato 5y ago
I've been pretty excited about the possibility of using Flutter in the future potentially, once it gets good, that issue got my hopes down a lot. You know a project is not in good hands when they say spending 6~10% of the CPU for rendering a blinking cursor is justified.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  I was excited about using Flutter "when it got good" almost 2 years ago now. At this point I just go for React Native if I need an app for mobile and web, and React if I just need a web app.
  - fabiospampinato 5y ago
    That's a practical solution, but IMO React is playing a fundamentally different game here, they have Native for mobile apps, and third-party (!) support for Windows and Mac (what about Linux?). Native doesn't even support the web, like React and React Native are two different things, they just share a somewhat similar UI framework basically. Flutter on the other hand is architected as a solve-it-all solution. They even went as far as designing Dart rather than hacking a decent solution on top of JS and the current mess of web standards. IMO that's a much more interesting and powerful approach, that isn't fully ready yet, but if it ever becomes actually good I'll personally probably jump ship and use it for everything.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      React Native Web exists [0]. But I agree, having parts be third party doesn't mesh well with being a complete framework for building apps (on whatever platform you need). [0] https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web
      - fabiospampinato 5y ago
        It exists, but it's a third-party thing, the value proposition here is not the same, Flutter plans to address to entire problem itself, React Native is only concerned with mobile basically, for everything else you are at the mercy of a third-party, which among other things may just stop maintaining the very platform you depend on, how can one build anything serious on top of that?
        cercatrova 5y ago
        Yep agreed. I tried to once wrangle together all the React frameworks to make something like what flutter offers, but in the end I gave up and used Flutter just because of how easy it makes it to run everything cross platform. Since the RN versions for desktop are third party, I didn't have much confidence in them being supported well, as you said.
        gorbypark 5y ago
        The Facebook team has alluded a number of times about making some of the “third party” platforms become first class members of react native. They haven’t officially announced anything but I’m guessing Microsoft’s work on react native for Windows/macOS will be folded into the main repo at some point in the near future. Facebook (seemingly based on git commits) has a number of full time employees collaborating with Microsoft on the Windows and macOS ports. Facebook messenger for desktop is already built with it. I haven’t seen any type of movement on react native web becoming something official, but it works amazingly well at the moment and is in use in production at Twitter. We just need a Linux port and the react native ecosystem will be pretty complete.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - billfruit 5y ago
    What about Xamarin? Is it a viable choice for the same thing?
    - fabiospampinato 5y ago
      I've never seen a Xamarin app running on the browser, is that a thing? As far as I'm concerned the web is the most important platform I care about, if a framework doesn't support it at all, like perhaps the language used isn't even compatible with the browser, then I'm not personally interested in it.
      - WorldMaker 5y ago
        I think that's why a lot of people are hoping for strong Blazor/MAUI alignment. I wish I liked Blazor better myself but I don't, it reminds me too much of the bad parts of ASP Classic wearing the skin of ASP.NET. Seeing the turduckens some of the hopeful are building of Blazor Razor Pages hosted in MAUI are interesting for sure, but partly in that way that I'm expecting a horror jump scare to follow. (ETA: Sorry, that sounds way harsher than I intended. Waiting for coffee to kick in.)
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
And it’s in a programming language nobody in the real world knows or uses. So that’s inconvenient.
mastax 5y ago
That's a bit silly as web browsers are already using dirty texts and the system compositor to reduce power usage and they have to deal with arbitrary HTML, while flutter apps mostly(?) use standard widgets which they control. Though I think the response was less "it's unfixable" and more "it will be an enormous amount of work so it isn't happening any time soon."
- mastax 5y ago
  *dirty rects
dnissley 5y ago
Interestingly enough, there's been a reply by the Flutter engineering lead since you originally posted your comment saying they do plan to do something about this eventually: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment-965381117 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment...
- ignoramous 5y ago
  > Hi all. Flutter engineering lead here. Thank you for the bug. > ... > I've retitled the bug to specifically target the blinking cursor issue. I don't expect us to attack this soon, but it's on our radar. The best way to indicate your support for this or any other issue is to use the +1 button. I don't get prioritizing based on 'popularity' contests. To me, 'a blinking cursor' taking up 10% CPU and 50MB RAM doesn't sound like a bug that needs one. Of course, unless you are a team at Google having issues, then the flutter team's going all hands on deck: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26333973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26333973
  - ssijak 5y ago
    Flutter repo in Github has 10 000 open issues, so I don't know how you prioritise that at all.
    - Hixie 5y ago
      https://github.com/flutter/flutter/wiki/Issue%20Hygiene https://github.com/flutter/flutter/wiki/Issue%20Hygiene describes our policies here.
  - derefr 5y ago
    Imagine having 1000 open bugs that are all of that level of severity/urgency. When the house is on fire and being knocked down by a tornado and a meteorite is coming for it, you really need some other criteria besides "disaster" to decide which disaster to address first.
    - 5y ago
markdog12 5y ago
Similar VS Code issue here: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/22900 https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/22900 HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13940014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13940014

fabiospampinato 5y ago

I've been pretty excited about the possibility of using Flutter in the future potentially, once it gets good, that issue got my hopes down a lot. You know a project is not in good hands when they say spending 6~10% of the CPU for rendering a blinking cursor is justified.

MathCodeLove 5y ago
I was excited about using Flutter "when it got good" almost 2 years ago now. At this point I just go for React Native if I need an app for mobile and web, and React if I just need a web app.
- fabiospampinato 5y ago
  That's a practical solution, but IMO React is playing a fundamentally different game here, they have Native for mobile apps, and third-party (!) support for Windows and Mac (what about Linux?). Native doesn't even support the web, like React and React Native are two different things, they just share a somewhat similar UI framework basically. Flutter on the other hand is architected as a solve-it-all solution. They even went as far as designing Dart rather than hacking a decent solution on top of JS and the current mess of web standards. IMO that's a much more interesting and powerful approach, that isn't fully ready yet, but if it ever becomes actually good I'll personally probably jump ship and use it for everything.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    React Native Web exists [0]. But I agree, having parts be third party doesn't mesh well with being a complete framework for building apps (on whatever platform you need). [0] https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web
    - fabiospampinato 5y ago
      It exists, but it's a third-party thing, the value proposition here is not the same, Flutter plans to address to entire problem itself, React Native is only concerned with mobile basically, for everything else you are at the mercy of a third-party, which among other things may just stop maintaining the very platform you depend on, how can one build anything serious on top of that?
      - cercatrova 5y ago
        Yep agreed. I tried to once wrangle together all the React frameworks to make something like what flutter offers, but in the end I gave up and used Flutter just because of how easy it makes it to run everything cross platform. Since the RN versions for desktop are third party, I didn't have much confidence in them being supported well, as you said.
      - gorbypark 5y ago
        The Facebook team has alluded a number of times about making some of the “third party” platforms become first class members of react native. They haven’t officially announced anything but I’m guessing Microsoft’s work on react native for Windows/macOS will be folded into the main repo at some point in the near future. Facebook (seemingly based on git commits) has a number of full time employees collaborating with Microsoft on the Windows and macOS ports. Facebook messenger for desktop is already built with it. I haven’t seen any type of movement on react native web becoming something official, but it works amazingly well at the moment and is in use in production at Twitter. We just need a Linux port and the react native ecosystem will be pretty complete.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- billfruit 5y ago
  What about Xamarin? Is it a viable choice for the same thing?
  - fabiospampinato 5y ago
    I've never seen a Xamarin app running on the browser, is that a thing? As far as I'm concerned the web is the most important platform I care about, if a framework doesn't support it at all, like perhaps the language used isn't even compatible with the browser, then I'm not personally interested in it.
    - WorldMaker 5y ago
      I think that's why a lot of people are hoping for strong Blazor/MAUI alignment. I wish I liked Blazor better myself but I don't, it reminds me too much of the bad parts of ASP Classic wearing the skin of ASP.NET. Seeing the turduckens some of the hopeful are building of Blazor Razor Pages hosted in MAUI are interesting for sure, but partly in that way that I'm expecting a horror jump scare to follow. (ETA: Sorry, that sounds way harsher than I intended. Waiting for coffee to kick in.)

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

And it’s in a programming language nobody in the real world knows or uses. So that’s inconvenient.

mastax 5y ago

That's a bit silly as web browsers are already using dirty texts and the system compositor to reduce power usage and they have to deal with arbitrary HTML, while flutter apps mostly(?) use standard widgets which they control. Though I think the response was less "it's unfixable" and more "it will be an enormous amount of work so it isn't happening any time soon."

mastax 5y ago
*dirty rects

dnissley 5y ago

Interestingly enough, there's been a reply by the Flutter engineering lead since you originally posted your comment saying they do plan to do something about this eventually: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment-965381117 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/59327#issuecomment...

ignoramous 5y ago
> Hi all. Flutter engineering lead here. Thank you for the bug. > ... > I've retitled the bug to specifically target the blinking cursor issue. I don't expect us to attack this soon, but it's on our radar. The best way to indicate your support for this or any other issue is to use the +1 button. I don't get prioritizing based on 'popularity' contests. To me, 'a blinking cursor' taking up 10% CPU and 50MB RAM doesn't sound like a bug that needs one. Of course, unless you are a team at Google having issues, then the flutter team's going all hands on deck: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26333973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26333973
- ssijak 5y ago
  Flutter repo in Github has 10 000 open issues, so I don't know how you prioritise that at all.
  - Hixie 5y ago
    https://github.com/flutter/flutter/wiki/Issue%20Hygiene https://github.com/flutter/flutter/wiki/Issue%20Hygiene describes our policies here.
- derefr 5y ago
  Imagine having 1000 open bugs that are all of that level of severity/urgency. When the house is on fire and being knocked down by a tornado and a meteorite is coming for it, you really need some other criteria besides "disaster" to decide which disaster to address first.
  - 5y ago

markdog12 5y ago

Similar VS Code issue here: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/22900 https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/22900 HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13940014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13940014