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I’d hope police chiefs have thicker skin enough to make the right choice despite the (agenda pushing) flak they might receive. At the end of the day, it’s hurt

I’d hope police chiefs have thicker skin enough to make the right choice despite the (agenda pushing) flak they might receive. At the end of the day, it’s hurt feelings vs hurt people. The mission must come first! That said, this is a position that requires a willingness to expose oneself to the pain and suffering of condemnation, in which the average person’s conviction would very quickly waver and capitulate to whichever wind the “public” opinion (read: corporate media mogul’s opinion) might blow. Haaarrddd stuff to expect.

RHSeeger 5y ago
> flak they might receive But they don't get "flak". They get a community of people misrepresenting the facts making it look like they're racist. And that turns into a national news story. And that turns into them being told to resign because the people above them don't want the political heat. I get that there are police officers that are, indeed, racially biased. But calling what the ones doing the right thing "flak" and dismissing it does a disservice to the good ones. It can be VERY hard to do the right thing, especially when it means it's the last thing you get to do (before you lose your job).
- ch4s3 5y ago
  You can ignore the racial angle and still come away with the criticism that the culture among most police departments in American is VERY antagonistic towards the populations they serve. I could bang on about my personal experience but it's not super relevant here. Just look at any major police scandal in the past decade. There's almost always an attempt at a cover up, and always a ton of officers that knew about it and did nothing. No matter what the crime or infraction is, police protect their own and circle up in the face of even the most benign criticism. There's a great book called I Got a Monster [1] that details Baltimore's infamous gun task force, and it's shocking how many people knew what they were up to for years. People who look the other way aren't good apples. For a bit of history, Radley Balko's Rise of the Warrior Cop [2] does a great job detailing the growth of us vs. them thinking among police nationally. > It can be VERY hard to do the right thing, especially when it means it's the last thing you get to do (before you lose your job). Police are almost NEVER fired. The number one goal of police unions is to prevent any firing for any reason ever, and they are very successful at that. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Got-Monster-Americas-Corrupt-Police/dp/1250221803 https://www.amazon.com/Got-Monster-Americas-Corrupt-Police/d... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    > Police are almost NEVER fired But police chiefs and above are forced to "resign" much more commonly. And it happens when the optics are bad on something that was the right thing to do (like policing higher crime areas more, when those areas have a higher rate of minorities).
    - ch4s3 5y ago
      I don't really se a lot of evidence for that, and I don't see how it relates to peoples' general displeasure with policing. I would also note that the kind of policing like stop and frisk that people hate, is not the kind of policing that actually prevents crime. THere's a giant body of research on this. Across America police departments, regardless of how "focused" they are on high crime areas seem to have abysmal closure rates for murders, assaults, rapes, and property crimes. Police in the US are far too focused on dumb shit like clearing corners, and policing nuisance crime. Moreover, who cares if a police chief, a political appointee, resigns? It means almost nothing for day to day policing which is governed by lower level union members and informed by trainings selected by the police unions.
      - RHSeeger 5y ago
        > I don't see how it relates to peoples' general displeasure with policing. It doesn't. It relates to the post I was replying to, which said that > I’d hope police chiefs have thicker skin enough to make the right choice despite the (agenda pushing) flak they might receive. Having thick skin doesn't help when you're out of a job and can't pay your bills; because you did the right thing.
        ch4s3 5y ago
        > Having thick skin doesn't help when you're out of a job and can't pay your bills; because you did the right thing. I didn't say anything about thick skin. The truth is that police are virtually never fired, and when they are they usually get rehired by other departments. I'd be surprised if you could find a police officer being fired for "doing the right thing" anywhere in America, unless it was whistle blowing. As for police chiefs, who cares? They are political appointees, who are probably fired or forced to resign at similar rates to heads of other departments. I still doubt you can find a single police chief who was fired for "doing the right thing." Where in America has there ever been a police chief who was trying to put resources into solving violent crimes and was subsequently let go for it? Sure, some have been let go for cargo culting CompStat and failing, but that's a shitty idea anyway.

RHSeeger 5y ago

> flak they might receive But they don't get "flak". They get a community of people misrepresenting the facts making it look like they're racist. And that turns into a national news story. And that turns into them being told to resign because the people above them don't want the political heat. I get that there are police officers that are, indeed, racially biased. But calling what the ones doing the right thing "flak" and dismissing it does a disservice to the good ones. It can be VERY hard to do the right thing, especially when it means it's the last thing you get to do (before you lose your job).

ch4s3 5y ago
You can ignore the racial angle and still come away with the criticism that the culture among most police departments in American is VERY antagonistic towards the populations they serve. I could bang on about my personal experience but it's not super relevant here. Just look at any major police scandal in the past decade. There's almost always an attempt at a cover up, and always a ton of officers that knew about it and did nothing. No matter what the crime or infraction is, police protect their own and circle up in the face of even the most benign criticism. There's a great book called I Got a Monster [1] that details Baltimore's infamous gun task force, and it's shocking how many people knew what they were up to for years. People who look the other way aren't good apples. For a bit of history, Radley Balko's Rise of the Warrior Cop [2] does a great job detailing the growth of us vs. them thinking among police nationally. > It can be VERY hard to do the right thing, especially when it means it's the last thing you get to do (before you lose your job). Police are almost NEVER fired. The number one goal of police unions is to prevent any firing for any reason ever, and they are very successful at that. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Got-Monster-Americas-Corrupt-Police/dp/1250221803 https://www.amazon.com/Got-Monster-Americas-Corrupt-Police/d... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  > Police are almost NEVER fired But police chiefs and above are forced to "resign" much more commonly. And it happens when the optics are bad on something that was the right thing to do (like policing higher crime areas more, when those areas have a higher rate of minorities).
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    I don't really se a lot of evidence for that, and I don't see how it relates to peoples' general displeasure with policing. I would also note that the kind of policing like stop and frisk that people hate, is not the kind of policing that actually prevents crime. THere's a giant body of research on this. Across America police departments, regardless of how "focused" they are on high crime areas seem to have abysmal closure rates for murders, assaults, rapes, and property crimes. Police in the US are far too focused on dumb shit like clearing corners, and policing nuisance crime. Moreover, who cares if a police chief, a political appointee, resigns? It means almost nothing for day to day policing which is governed by lower level union members and informed by trainings selected by the police unions.
    - RHSeeger 5y ago
      > I don't see how it relates to peoples' general displeasure with policing. It doesn't. It relates to the post I was replying to, which said that > I’d hope police chiefs have thicker skin enough to make the right choice despite the (agenda pushing) flak they might receive. Having thick skin doesn't help when you're out of a job and can't pay your bills; because you did the right thing.
      - ch4s3 5y ago
        > Having thick skin doesn't help when you're out of a job and can't pay your bills; because you did the right thing. I didn't say anything about thick skin. The truth is that police are virtually never fired, and when they are they usually get rehired by other departments. I'd be surprised if you could find a police officer being fired for "doing the right thing" anywhere in America, unless it was whistle blowing. As for police chiefs, who cares? They are political appointees, who are probably fired or forced to resign at similar rates to heads of other departments. I still doubt you can find a single police chief who was fired for "doing the right thing." Where in America has there ever been a police chief who was trying to put resources into solving violent crimes and was subsequently let go for it? Sure, some have been let go for cargo culting CompStat and failing, but that's a shitty idea anyway.