4 ms·

How about they make it opt-in? Default to walled garden of today. Give people an option to breath the clean air outside the castle gates if they choose. THATS

How about they make it opt-in? Default to walled garden of today. Give people an option to breath the clean air outside the castle gates if they choose. THATS Freedom.

ericmay 5y ago
Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That’s what I don’t get here. Like if I wanted to repair my phone for example I’d buy a phone with that as a feature. If I wanted to “install anything I want” I’d buy a phone with that feature or capability. If you just don’t buy an iPhone then maybe market forces will cause Ape to add this (to your eyes) feature.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  > Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That's exactly what I did, but I know several iPhone users who don't feel comfortable making the switch despite being unhappy with Apple's policies. It's a big deal to change ecosystems for people who are heavy mobile users. It might mean getting new accessories, learning new apps (or not having a direct replacement for an app), and losing several other benefits of being in a single ecosystem. It's ridiculous to say that customers should shut up and take their business elsewhere. If current users don't speak up about Apple's consumer/developer-hostile behavior, who will?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I don't think it's consumer hostile. It's consumer positive. I don't want multiple app stores. I want Apple's heavy-handed approach. I want Apple to make developers who are trying to screw over people fess up to their anti-consumer activities. If Apple changes as you want it, then now I'm unhappy with Apple's policies. It's a big deal for me to change ecosystems as a heavy mobile user. I might have to get new accessories or learn new apps, or lose several other benefits of being in the Apple ecosystem. > developer-hostile It's the developers who are mostly hostile TBH. That's why they're railing against things like Apple enforcing data permissions or making developers at least nominally fess up to how they are fucking you and stealing your data. Developers aren't some magical good "guy/gal" to be put on a pedestal.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      if YOU don't want multiple app stores, DO NOT use them. Why should OTHER people who WANT multiple app stores NOT have them? For your convenience? Once and again, you project your needs (or lack of them) on other people. Your reasoning is exactly this: "I don't like gay people. Gay sex should not be allowed".
    - schwartzworld 5y ago
      > I don't want multiple app stores. Why does you not wanting multiple app stores matter? Many Android users don't set foot outside the Play store and you could do the same. Apple supporting "sideloading" or even just supporting the PWA spec would only increase the options for using your phone, without forcing you to change your current usage at all. > It's the developers who are mostly hostile TBH. Now you're being deliberately disingenuous. Apple has a long track record of developer-hostile behavior.
      - ericmay 5y ago
        > Now you're being deliberately disingenuous. Apple has a long track record of developer-hostile behavior. No I'm not. Developers are clearly user-hostile. Facebook anyone? This is obvious. > Why does you not wanting multiple app stores matter? Because if developers can leave the Apple App Store and move to third party app stores, then all of the benefits of collective bargaining that go along with Apple making developers do things like support Apple anonymous ID, or state what they use data for, go out the window because Apple loses it's dominant position on the platform. And there is little to no benefit for me as a user. I don't care if Netflix (contrived example) makes less money because Apple takes a cut. Apple provides me with a valuable and easy to use payment mechanism. It's not worth the trade-off for me. So yea I'm going to oppose something that doesn't add value to me and takes away value from me.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Because good luck finding an Android phone that is usable without Google. It's doable, but it requires specific phones and a lot of knowledge / time.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  > Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That’s what I don’t get here. "Vote with your wallet" is a bogus argument because undercutting the rights of the consumers that actually pay for the device and own it, in effect means that consumers end up with no choice. If Apple says you can only install apps from App Store, and Google says Android phones will spy on you, who do I turn to if I don't want both these features? There is no real choice, not only because corporates form alliances and behave like cartels to not only stem competition but also to ensure the rights of the consumers are suppressed (e.g. Apple has actively lobbied against the right-to-repair movement). Suppressing consumer rights only benefits big businesses.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Ok so who do I turn to when I only want a curated App Store from Apple on my iPhone so I can enjoy the conveniences of the iPhone like Apple Pay, anonymous sign-in enforced, and other features that I value? Or is it that consumer rights only matter when they come from you? Every time this conversation comes up people act as though the 3rd-party App Store stuff is a good thing that everyone inherently wants and if you don't want it you must be violating some user rights or w/e and be a corporate shill for apple against the innocent little poor developer community. All platforms, software or otherwise have restrictions of some sort. I can't just sell whatever I want at Wal-Mart or Amazon. Maybe consumers do want products with lead in them if they're cheaper - who are you to deny their freedom of choice? I'll take my own risk thank you very much. So w/e. Frame it how you want. Ultimately it'll happen but it's going to suck hardcore. Thankfully I don't use products like Facebook so I won't have to worry about them siphoning my data directly on my iPhone but there's no doubt they and other companies going to move to a 3rd-party store or create their own so they can do whatever they want. Put lead in products, take user's data, w/e, and in the end nothing of value will actually be gained. Netflix and Facebook and whoever will make more money because they won't have to pay Apple to use the iPhone platform. You're just pitting some billion dollar corporations versus others and siding with some over others. You'll have this principled freedom of a worse experience of adware, malware, and scummy user-hostile behavior.
    - webmobdev 5y ago

How about they make it opt-in? Default to walled garden of today. Give people an option to breath the clean air outside the castle gates if they choose. THATS Freedom.

ericmay 5y ago

Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That’s what I don’t get here. Like if I wanted to repair my phone for example I’d buy a phone with that as a feature. If I wanted to “install anything I want” I’d buy a phone with that feature or capability. If you just don’t buy an iPhone then maybe market forces will cause Ape to add this (to your eyes) feature.

schwartzworld 5y ago
> Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That's exactly what I did, but I know several iPhone users who don't feel comfortable making the switch despite being unhappy with Apple's policies. It's a big deal to change ecosystems for people who are heavy mobile users. It might mean getting new accessories, learning new apps (or not having a direct replacement for an app), and losing several other benefits of being in a single ecosystem. It's ridiculous to say that customers should shut up and take their business elsewhere. If current users don't speak up about Apple's consumer/developer-hostile behavior, who will?
- ericmay 5y ago
  I don't think it's consumer hostile. It's consumer positive. I don't want multiple app stores. I want Apple's heavy-handed approach. I want Apple to make developers who are trying to screw over people fess up to their anti-consumer activities. If Apple changes as you want it, then now I'm unhappy with Apple's policies. It's a big deal for me to change ecosystems as a heavy mobile user. I might have to get new accessories or learn new apps, or lose several other benefits of being in the Apple ecosystem. > developer-hostile It's the developers who are mostly hostile TBH. That's why they're railing against things like Apple enforcing data permissions or making developers at least nominally fess up to how they are fucking you and stealing your data. Developers aren't some magical good "guy/gal" to be put on a pedestal.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    if YOU don't want multiple app stores, DO NOT use them. Why should OTHER people who WANT multiple app stores NOT have them? For your convenience? Once and again, you project your needs (or lack of them) on other people. Your reasoning is exactly this: "I don't like gay people. Gay sex should not be allowed".
  - schwartzworld 5y ago
    > I don't want multiple app stores. Why does you not wanting multiple app stores matter? Many Android users don't set foot outside the Play store and you could do the same. Apple supporting "sideloading" or even just supporting the PWA spec would only increase the options for using your phone, without forcing you to change your current usage at all. > It's the developers who are mostly hostile TBH. Now you're being deliberately disingenuous. Apple has a long track record of developer-hostile behavior.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      > Now you're being deliberately disingenuous. Apple has a long track record of developer-hostile behavior. No I'm not. Developers are clearly user-hostile. Facebook anyone? This is obvious. > Why does you not wanting multiple app stores matter? Because if developers can leave the Apple App Store and move to third party app stores, then all of the benefits of collective bargaining that go along with Apple making developers do things like support Apple anonymous ID, or state what they use data for, go out the window because Apple loses it's dominant position on the platform. And there is little to no benefit for me as a user. I don't care if Netflix (contrived example) makes less money because Apple takes a cut. Apple provides me with a valuable and easy to use payment mechanism. It's not worth the trade-off for me. So yea I'm going to oppose something that doesn't add value to me and takes away value from me.
pjerem 5y ago
Because good luck finding an Android phone that is usable without Google. It's doable, but it requires specific phones and a lot of knowledge / time.
webmobdev 5y ago
> Why not just buy an Android phone with the features you want? That’s what I don’t get here. "Vote with your wallet" is a bogus argument because undercutting the rights of the consumers that actually pay for the device and own it, in effect means that consumers end up with no choice. If Apple says you can only install apps from App Store, and Google says Android phones will spy on you, who do I turn to if I don't want both these features? There is no real choice, not only because corporates form alliances and behave like cartels to not only stem competition but also to ensure the rights of the consumers are suppressed (e.g. Apple has actively lobbied against the right-to-repair movement). Suppressing consumer rights only benefits big businesses.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Ok so who do I turn to when I only want a curated App Store from Apple on my iPhone so I can enjoy the conveniences of the iPhone like Apple Pay, anonymous sign-in enforced, and other features that I value? Or is it that consumer rights only matter when they come from you? Every time this conversation comes up people act as though the 3rd-party App Store stuff is a good thing that everyone inherently wants and if you don't want it you must be violating some user rights or w/e and be a corporate shill for apple against the innocent little poor developer community. All platforms, software or otherwise have restrictions of some sort. I can't just sell whatever I want at Wal-Mart or Amazon. Maybe consumers do want products with lead in them if they're cheaper - who are you to deny their freedom of choice? I'll take my own risk thank you very much. So w/e. Frame it how you want. Ultimately it'll happen but it's going to suck hardcore. Thankfully I don't use products like Facebook so I won't have to worry about them siphoning my data directly on my iPhone but there's no doubt they and other companies going to move to a 3rd-party store or create their own so they can do whatever they want. Put lead in products, take user's data, w/e, and in the end nothing of value will actually be gained. Netflix and Facebook and whoever will make more money because they won't have to pay Apple to use the iPhone platform. You're just pitting some billion dollar corporations versus others and siding with some over others. You'll have this principled freedom of a worse experience of adware, malware, and scummy user-hostile behavior.
  - webmobdev 5y ago