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Oh pray tell. What solutions will fix the following two problems: 1. What type of storage is able to provide for, say, Northern Europe, where there may be week

Oh pray tell. What solutions will fix the following two problems: 1. What type of storage is able to provide for, say, Northern Europe, where there may be weeks without wind and months without any significant sunlight? Keep in mind that the answer must be realistic, and not, for example, require that we suddenly increase global battery production by several orders of magnitude. 2. Renewable energy is already vastly insufficient to meet demand, even at moments when it is producing at full capacity. When will you actually fill those batteries? Oh, and while we are at it, which part of the already densely populated landscape of Northern Europe should be sacrificed to put all this equipment?

gefhfff 5y ago
Storage: gas, batteries of EVs Energy: put solar on every roof, and some land, use 2% land for wind, use wasted energy better, reduce power consumption, ... There are multiple studies that show a path to renewables for Germany using just renewables. And it can happen before any nuclear reactor can be used...
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
In reverse order: 2. We need to build lots more renewables. 1. a) You build more than you need on any particular day so even when the wind is low you get something. b) when you have more than you need as electricity, which is basically all the time, you make hydrogen to decarbonize the production of steel, fertilizer, avgas etc. (This is something we need to do even if we had lots of cheap nuclear plants) c) If you are hit by some freak event you didnt plan for, and you can't just import via wires, you burn the hydrogen in fairly standard cheap turbines to provide more power. You have a lot stored as hydrogen anyway that you were going to make stuff with, so just delay that a little. (In the short term, while every bit of electricity is needed to clean the grid, stored natural gas can take this role) d) do this all over the world, and when convenient, trade hydrogen or things made from it as a way of exporting/importing renewable energy from wherever it's cheapest. e) lithium batteries for grid use would only be economic for shifting a small amount of power on a daily schedule (e.g. solar peaks to evenings or night wind to mornings) but.. f) the entire vehicle fleet shifting to battery means theres a giant demand response fleet that can absorb energy when its available at no (extra) loss since they were going to charge anyway. extra: there's no reason to not include nuclear in the above, except for the fact that it's more expensive than the other options for producing electricity and we already need a method to flex demand to meet needs. So new nuclear is mostly useless, unless you need some excuse to talk about how crap renewables are.
- MisterMower 5y ago
  This website is great. I love hearing software developers solve the world’s energy problems in on post. Just keep building windmills and solar panels until you have enough generation! Easy! Then store it for a rainy day. It’s just common sense! Also, electric cars. I hope they use imminent domain to steal your backyard and local park for those solar panels. I’ve already got a ton of windmills in my backyard and was without power for three days this February. The only way to dissuade you people of these horrible ideas is going to be for you to get what you asked for good and hard, and then suffer the consequences of your hubris. So bring it on, bulldoze what few nuclear plants and coal plants are left so you can sit in the cold and dark this winter, basking in the glory of the solar panels on your roof that won’t heat your house.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    I'm not a fan of the software engineers telling everyone that something isn't possible, when all the experts in the relevant field are getting on and doing it. The above isnt my crazy idea, its a summary of the plans the entire world are putting into effect for the future. https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eu-green-hydrogen-plans-hailed-as-true-game-changer-by-industry/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eu-green-hydrog... They're not doing it at scale right now, because just building lots of renewables to displace other generation is the low hanging fruit. But if you're scared of renewables because you are really worried about that last 20% of awkward cases is impossible, the above is a fair summary of how it'll likely go down when we get to that part. I shouldn't have to summarize this stuff for someone who asks rhetorical questions about how will we deal with x, because Google exists, but it seems I do because people are putting a lot of effort into remaining uninformed about these things.

gefhfff 5y ago

Storage: gas, batteries of EVs Energy: put solar on every roof, and some land, use 2% land for wind, use wasted energy better, reduce power consumption, ... There are multiple studies that show a path to renewables for Germany using just renewables. And it can happen before any nuclear reactor can be used...

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

In reverse order: 2. We need to build lots more renewables. 1. a) You build more than you need on any particular day so even when the wind is low you get something. b) when you have more than you need as electricity, which is basically all the time, you make hydrogen to decarbonize the production of steel, fertilizer, avgas etc. (This is something we need to do even if we had lots of cheap nuclear plants) c) If you are hit by some freak event you didnt plan for, and you can't just import via wires, you burn the hydrogen in fairly standard cheap turbines to provide more power. You have a lot stored as hydrogen anyway that you were going to make stuff with, so just delay that a little. (In the short term, while every bit of electricity is needed to clean the grid, stored natural gas can take this role) d) do this all over the world, and when convenient, trade hydrogen or things made from it as a way of exporting/importing renewable energy from wherever it's cheapest. e) lithium batteries for grid use would only be economic for shifting a small amount of power on a daily schedule (e.g. solar peaks to evenings or night wind to mornings) but.. f) the entire vehicle fleet shifting to battery means theres a giant demand response fleet that can absorb energy when its available at no (extra) loss since they were going to charge anyway. extra: there's no reason to not include nuclear in the above, except for the fact that it's more expensive than the other options for producing electricity and we already need a method to flex demand to meet needs. So new nuclear is mostly useless, unless you need some excuse to talk about how crap renewables are.

MisterMower 5y ago
This website is great. I love hearing software developers solve the world’s energy problems in on post. Just keep building windmills and solar panels until you have enough generation! Easy! Then store it for a rainy day. It’s just common sense! Also, electric cars. I hope they use imminent domain to steal your backyard and local park for those solar panels. I’ve already got a ton of windmills in my backyard and was without power for three days this February. The only way to dissuade you people of these horrible ideas is going to be for you to get what you asked for good and hard, and then suffer the consequences of your hubris. So bring it on, bulldoze what few nuclear plants and coal plants are left so you can sit in the cold and dark this winter, basking in the glory of the solar panels on your roof that won’t heat your house.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  I'm not a fan of the software engineers telling everyone that something isn't possible, when all the experts in the relevant field are getting on and doing it. The above isnt my crazy idea, its a summary of the plans the entire world are putting into effect for the future. https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eu-green-hydrogen-plans-hailed-as-true-game-changer-by-industry/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eu-green-hydrog... They're not doing it at scale right now, because just building lots of renewables to displace other generation is the low hanging fruit. But if you're scared of renewables because you are really worried about that last 20% of awkward cases is impossible, the above is a fair summary of how it'll likely go down when we get to that part. I shouldn't have to summarize this stuff for someone who asks rhetorical questions about how will we deal with x, because Google exists, but it seems I do because people are putting a lot of effort into remaining uninformed about these things.