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73% [1] of couriers don't want to be employees (in Finland). They are quite happy with this arrangement as it means they are paid more. The survey that was cond

by deanc 5y ago

73% [1] of couriers don't want to be employees (in Finland). They are quite happy with this arrangement as it means they are paid more. The survey that was conducted was quite thorough and interesting. It's worth a read. (Just stating facts here, don't have an opinion myself on this) [1] https://blog.wolt.com/fin/2021/06/23/taloustutkimus-majority-of-wolt-couriers-wish-to-continue-as-contractors/ https://blog.wolt.com/fin/2021/06/23/taloustutkimus-majority...

zpeti 5y ago
[flagged]
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Being non-employee at these income levels is just horrible deal. Miss quite many things from pensions to possible unemployment benefits and possibly even paid vacation. It only really starts to become reasonable if you can bill yourself as consultant in fields like IT.
- Sharlin 5y ago
  There’s also no reason an employee couldn’t have fully flexible hours if the business model is suitable anyway. Well, in principle no reason, anyway, in practice current employment legislation and collective agreements in Finland place limits on working times because historically the risk of employers voluntelling employees to work less-than-pleasant hours has been deemed too high.
- AnssiH 5y ago
  Employment does not have to mean fixed or restricted work times.
mschuster91 5y ago
Classic short-term fallacy. Yes, you get more net payout as a "contractor" - but you don't get paid sick leave or pension contributions unless you care for these on your own. This is why this model is very frowned upon by European societies as it inevitably leaves taxpayers to pick up the tab in the form of basic social security.
- deanclatworthy 5y ago
  Maybe. But remember that the employees themselves voted on this. This was done by an independent auditor.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    People are really bad with long term planning. Your average 20 year old doesn't know anything about pensions and considers themselves to be indestructible. It would be ridiculously easy to just copy the US and do away with the social welfare system. See how many will actually save for their retirement lol.
- jarcane 5y ago
  You don't even get paid more. The apps have been circulating this myth in the press, but it's based on obfuscating of the numbers at best, and outright lies at worst. There's a reason most of their couriers are immigrants: anyone else can get paid more stocking a supermarket or driving a cab.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    After they freed the taxi market even that is somewhere on level of gig-work. Still, there is good amount better paid untrained work around.
    - jabl 5y ago
      > After they freed the taxi market even that is somewhere on level of gig-work. Certainly the freeing could have been done better, but the system before wasn't exactly healthy either. There was a fixed number of taxi licenses, and taxi companies were of course heavily lobbying against increasing the number. Since there were so few of them, good luck getting a taxi on a weekend night. Then again, if you were lucky and got a taxi, it was a shiny clean Mercedes (which perhaps tells something about the profit margins they were running at).
      - 5y ago

by deanc 5y ago

zpeti 5y ago

[flagged]

Ekaros 5y ago
Being non-employee at these income levels is just horrible deal. Miss quite many things from pensions to possible unemployment benefits and possibly even paid vacation. It only really starts to become reasonable if you can bill yourself as consultant in fields like IT.
Sharlin 5y ago
There’s also no reason an employee couldn’t have fully flexible hours if the business model is suitable anyway. Well, in principle no reason, anyway, in practice current employment legislation and collective agreements in Finland place limits on working times because historically the risk of employers voluntelling employees to work less-than-pleasant hours has been deemed too high.
AnssiH 5y ago
Employment does not have to mean fixed or restricted work times.

mschuster91 5y ago

Classic short-term fallacy. Yes, you get more net payout as a "contractor" - but you don't get paid sick leave or pension contributions unless you care for these on your own. This is why this model is very frowned upon by European societies as it inevitably leaves taxpayers to pick up the tab in the form of basic social security.

deanclatworthy 5y ago
Maybe. But remember that the employees themselves voted on this. This was done by an independent auditor.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  People are really bad with long term planning. Your average 20 year old doesn't know anything about pensions and considers themselves to be indestructible. It would be ridiculously easy to just copy the US and do away with the social welfare system. See how many will actually save for their retirement lol.
jarcane 5y ago
You don't even get paid more. The apps have been circulating this myth in the press, but it's based on obfuscating of the numbers at best, and outright lies at worst. There's a reason most of their couriers are immigrants: anyone else can get paid more stocking a supermarket or driving a cab.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  After they freed the taxi market even that is somewhere on level of gig-work. Still, there is good amount better paid untrained work around.
  - jabl 5y ago
    > After they freed the taxi market even that is somewhere on level of gig-work. Certainly the freeing could have been done better, but the system before wasn't exactly healthy either. There was a fixed number of taxi licenses, and taxi companies were of course heavily lobbying against increasing the number. Since there were so few of them, good luck getting a taxi on a weekend night. Then again, if you were lucky and got a taxi, it was a shiny clean Mercedes (which perhaps tells something about the profit margins they were running at).
    - 5y ago