5 ms·

> Maybe the problem isn't the way the police are operating What is the problem then? :)

by trustfundbaby 5y ago

0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Judging by some of the replies further down. I think we both know what they're implying :|
- wongarsu 5y ago
  That gettos of socioeconomicly disparaged people lead to an increased crime rate, and over generations lead to a subculture that perpetuates the cycle? Or that specifically making things illegal because they are popular in a subculture can over decades drive those subcultures to integrate an inclination to crime in general into the subculture? We can't effect change if we aren't willing to talk about the causes for the problem, or even acknowledge the existence of a problem.
bopbeepboop 5y ago
That according to the FBI, black people commit 5-10x the violent felonies of white people, per capita. They’re a uniquely violent demographic and it’s unsurprising that their arrest statistics don’t match other demographics. The statistical differences are a result of that underlying difference in rate — rather than anything about the police. No change in police policy except ignoring violent felonies committed by blacks can fix the underlying per capita imbalance. And no — that’s not a race thing, as shown by recent African migrants and other immigrants. It’s a cyclic poverty and crime thing… but that doesn’t change that there’s a correlation between violent felonies and race. A correlation that gets carried forward into arrest statistics.
- spamizbad 5y ago
  Not sure I follow the logic here. The FBI statistics you’re quoting pertain to arrests, correct? That requires police involvement. In fact, the FBI gathers its data from police departments themselves. So if there is a concentration of police activity aimed at specific communities those numbers are naturally going to be higher. To my knowledge there’s no dataset on who actually does crimes regardless of police involvement (eg: including noninvestigated crimes)
  - twofornone 5y ago
    So socioeconomic factors suddenly don't influence crime rate? Broken homes? Missing fathers? Drug epidemics? Rotten crabs in a bucket culture which disproportionately glorifies violence, drug use, misogyny, homophobia, none of these things influence crime rate? We don't even need to touch the subject of genetic predisposition to lower intelligence and/or aggression, which are scientifically documented facts. Let me put it this way: would you willingly move to the ghetto, since as you imply these are friendly people just like you and me who are merely victims of disproportionate scrutiny by police? Modern antiracism is a competition in mental gynmastics, built entirely upon denial of statistics and science. If you are going to acknowledge differences in culture then logical consistency requires acknowledging that certain cultures are more violent and criminal on average than others. That's the nature of our reality and to deny this fact is naive.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - xphilter 5y ago
      Okay, would you out yourself having these views? Surely if you’re so righteous and noble you’d have no problem writing a blog post on LinkedIn. You know it’s bogus, give me a break. 400 years of slavery, hate, segregation, and economic discrimination is what has led to these “ghettos” with over policing and high crime. The cause is multi-generational poverty. You want to solve the problem? Then go support reparations in the form of extra funding for everything in the “ghetto.”
      - twofornone 5y ago
        >Okay, would you out yourself having these views? Surely if you’re so righteous and noble you’d have no problem writing a blog post on LinkedIn That's slimy, anti-intellectual reasoning. The fact that an opinion is unpopular with the mob does not imply that it is wrong. In any case at least we've moved past the nonsensical assertion that crime rates only appear to be higher because of overpolicing.
- enkid 5y ago
  Blacks are also about 4 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession. If that's your only source of information, you would believe it was because blacks buy more marijuana, but that's not true. White and black use of marijuana is basically the same. This is why we shouldn't take felony statistics at face value for a demographic being "uniquely violent."
  - gjs278 5y ago
    the main statistic is homocide and the police are not going to let that crime slide or use discretion when arresting for that
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    It's very easy to claim that you are not racist and that your views are based on statistics when the statistics themselves only show what they show because of the effects of decades of directed, focused and intentional racism.
  - bopbeepboop 5y ago
    There aren’t enough corpses or missing persons for the murder ratio to be meaningfully wrong. There’s 21,000 murders a year, and we’d need to add 40,000+ to fix the ratio — with only 2,000 unfound missing persons a year. Your post “sounds smart” while proposing ridiculous things — like we’re somehow missing 40,000 murder victims a year. Okay — where are the missing murder victims?

> Maybe the problem isn't the way the police are operating What is the problem then? :)

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

Judging by some of the replies further down. I think we both know what they're implying :|

wongarsu 5y ago
That gettos of socioeconomicly disparaged people lead to an increased crime rate, and over generations lead to a subculture that perpetuates the cycle? Or that specifically making things illegal because they are popular in a subculture can over decades drive those subcultures to integrate an inclination to crime in general into the subculture? We can't effect change if we aren't willing to talk about the causes for the problem, or even acknowledge the existence of a problem.

bopbeepboop 5y ago

That according to the FBI, black people commit 5-10x the violent felonies of white people, per capita. They’re a uniquely violent demographic and it’s unsurprising that their arrest statistics don’t match other demographics. The statistical differences are a result of that underlying difference in rate — rather than anything about the police. No change in police policy except ignoring violent felonies committed by blacks can fix the underlying per capita imbalance. And no — that’s not a race thing, as shown by recent African migrants and other immigrants. It’s a cyclic poverty and crime thing… but that doesn’t change that there’s a correlation between violent felonies and race. A correlation that gets carried forward into arrest statistics.

spamizbad 5y ago
Not sure I follow the logic here. The FBI statistics you’re quoting pertain to arrests, correct? That requires police involvement. In fact, the FBI gathers its data from police departments themselves. So if there is a concentration of police activity aimed at specific communities those numbers are naturally going to be higher. To my knowledge there’s no dataset on who actually does crimes regardless of police involvement (eg: including noninvestigated crimes)
- twofornone 5y ago
  So socioeconomic factors suddenly don't influence crime rate? Broken homes? Missing fathers? Drug epidemics? Rotten crabs in a bucket culture which disproportionately glorifies violence, drug use, misogyny, homophobia, none of these things influence crime rate? We don't even need to touch the subject of genetic predisposition to lower intelligence and/or aggression, which are scientifically documented facts. Let me put it this way: would you willingly move to the ghetto, since as you imply these are friendly people just like you and me who are merely victims of disproportionate scrutiny by police? Modern antiracism is a competition in mental gynmastics, built entirely upon denial of statistics and science. If you are going to acknowledge differences in culture then logical consistency requires acknowledging that certain cultures are more violent and criminal on average than others. That's the nature of our reality and to deny this fact is naive.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - xphilter 5y ago
    Okay, would you out yourself having these views? Surely if you’re so righteous and noble you’d have no problem writing a blog post on LinkedIn. You know it’s bogus, give me a break. 400 years of slavery, hate, segregation, and economic discrimination is what has led to these “ghettos” with over policing and high crime. The cause is multi-generational poverty. You want to solve the problem? Then go support reparations in the form of extra funding for everything in the “ghetto.”
    - twofornone 5y ago
      >Okay, would you out yourself having these views? Surely if you’re so righteous and noble you’d have no problem writing a blog post on LinkedIn That's slimy, anti-intellectual reasoning. The fact that an opinion is unpopular with the mob does not imply that it is wrong. In any case at least we've moved past the nonsensical assertion that crime rates only appear to be higher because of overpolicing.
enkid 5y ago
Blacks are also about 4 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession. If that's your only source of information, you would believe it was because blacks buy more marijuana, but that's not true. White and black use of marijuana is basically the same. This is why we shouldn't take felony statistics at face value for a demographic being "uniquely violent."
- gjs278 5y ago
  the main statistic is homocide and the police are not going to let that crime slide or use discretion when arresting for that
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  It's very easy to claim that you are not racist and that your views are based on statistics when the statistics themselves only show what they show because of the effects of decades of directed, focused and intentional racism.
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
  There aren’t enough corpses or missing persons for the murder ratio to be meaningfully wrong. There’s 21,000 murders a year, and we’d need to add 40,000+ to fix the ratio — with only 2,000 unfound missing persons a year. Your post “sounds smart” while proposing ridiculous things — like we’re somehow missing 40,000 murder victims a year. Okay — where are the missing murder victims?