4 ms·

This is interesting for replacing small wind turbines, which often break before they recovered their embodied energy[1], but I have a hard time seeing this tech

This is interesting for replacing small wind turbines, which often break before they recovered their embodied energy[1], but I have a hard time seeing this technology replace large scale commercial wind turbines. Kite based wind power has been talked about for years, but somehow it fails to materialize. I assume cost and safety concerns play a role. [1]http://theoildrum.com/node/6954 http://theoildrum.com/node/6954

sandworm101 5y ago
Launch costs. Kites work well enough when the wind is blowing but a lull, or even a quick change in direction, can see them crash to the ground. Then someone has to launch them again. I cannot see them ever being practical outside of those very rare places where the wind literally never stops.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Kites like Makani's are autonomous, and that's really one of the harder aspects to get to work.
  - wmertens 5y ago
    Makani's kite is steered. This one just needs to stay aloft. Launching it is just a matter of a wind-up spool on a windvane-like small rotating platform (no more than a few m high)
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      I know how it works, what are you arguing for or against?
      - mainpeanut 5y ago
        You wrote > Kites like Makani's are autonomous They wrote > Makani's kite is steered. This one just needs to stay aloft The implication is that you are suggesting that autonomous steering is neat and the other person is suggesting that not needing steering is neater. Also, Makani was steered into the ground literally and figuratively. It's been cancelled. It will never do what it said it could do because its creators won't keep doing it. It's over.
        Grustaf 5y ago
        No, I just meant what I wrote. I'm simply agreeing with the guy that said that launching is expensive. It's indeed the hardest part for any kite energy system, I know this from experience, I spent several years in this industry. If you could live with having to launch and land the system manually, that would change the equation completely.
  - mainpeanut 5y ago
    > Kites like Makani's are autonomous The are also cancelled, gone, don't exist, will never happen
UncleOxidant 5y ago
The autonomous control of the kite is one of the big issues. It was basically not possible when the idea was first presented in the 80s - there weren't computers small enough with enough computing power needed for the task. Also there were materials problems. Now we've made a lot of progress on both fronts, but still, the control software is a huge issue. We were planning on using reinforcement learning to learn a controller for our kite (when I was in the biz), but getting enough data to learn on was an issue - the kite design was an iterative process - the kite design would change and that meant we needed to recollect data to enable us to model the new kite changes, wash, rinse, repeat.

sandworm101 5y ago

Launch costs. Kites work well enough when the wind is blowing but a lull, or even a quick change in direction, can see them crash to the ground. Then someone has to launch them again. I cannot see them ever being practical outside of those very rare places where the wind literally never stops.

Grustaf 5y ago
Kites like Makani's are autonomous, and that's really one of the harder aspects to get to work.
- wmertens 5y ago
  Makani's kite is steered. This one just needs to stay aloft. Launching it is just a matter of a wind-up spool on a windvane-like small rotating platform (no more than a few m high)
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I know how it works, what are you arguing for or against?
    - mainpeanut 5y ago
      You wrote > Kites like Makani's are autonomous They wrote > Makani's kite is steered. This one just needs to stay aloft The implication is that you are suggesting that autonomous steering is neat and the other person is suggesting that not needing steering is neater. Also, Makani was steered into the ground literally and figuratively. It's been cancelled. It will never do what it said it could do because its creators won't keep doing it. It's over.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        No, I just meant what I wrote. I'm simply agreeing with the guy that said that launching is expensive. It's indeed the hardest part for any kite energy system, I know this from experience, I spent several years in this industry. If you could live with having to launch and land the system manually, that would change the equation completely.
- mainpeanut 5y ago
  > Kites like Makani's are autonomous The are also cancelled, gone, don't exist, will never happen

UncleOxidant 5y ago

The autonomous control of the kite is one of the big issues. It was basically not possible when the idea was first presented in the 80s - there weren't computers small enough with enough computing power needed for the task. Also there were materials problems. Now we've made a lot of progress on both fronts, but still, the control software is a huge issue. We were planning on using reinforcement learning to learn a controller for our kite (when I was in the biz), but getting enough data to learn on was an issue - the kite design was an iterative process - the kite design would change and that meant we needed to recollect data to enable us to model the new kite changes, wash, rinse, repeat.