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Wow, the astroturfing in this thread already is happening. 0. This is nothing new, airbnb always had a free "guarantee" they just rebranded it basically from w

Wow, the astroturfing in this thread already is happening. 0. This is nothing new, airbnb always had a free "guarantee" they just rebranded it basically from what I see to a trademarkable name. 1. Umbrella policy is better than airbnb. Umbrella policy will go after all parties including airbnb on your behalf. 2. Airbnb has a history of ignoring or mitigating damages unless you get famous on social media - this includes sexual assault/rape and murder of animals. https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Guest-caused-the-death-of-hosts-dog/td-p/1250138 https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Guest-caused-the-de... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/16/airbnb-new-york-woman-allegedly-raped-settlement https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/16/airbnb-ne... While these are just two incidents, there are countless more that can be searched, or you can probably filter through other incidents, and yes, while airbnb did "compensate" they did so only after intense media pressure. 3. If you are a tourist in most countries and "fly" back home, you are judgement proof. There only liability is the guests airbnb account, which, is worthless. You can create new accounts, and in most places you can use alternative government identification to bypass previous bans. You can read the link I posted earlier about the death of a dog, the PII that airbnb released was not enough to start a civil court case. And even if you have a name, you have no guarantee that the nae of the airbnb account is the ACTUAL guest that stayed.

numair 5y ago
There was a weird ad-post for You.com earlier, which I mistakenly thought was organic... And now this. HN needs a bit more transparency or it’s going to lose a few of us.
- FuckedCompany 5y ago
  HN has already lost a lot of quality posters over the last 10 years. It’s a drop in the bucket as more and more new registrations happen anyway. For the savvy reader: the best kind of astroturfing on a tech site involves nerdsniping. Make a small obvious error and you’ll get people trampling over each other to correct you. Never underestimate how smug stooges can pay off. Keep an eye out for these kinds of posts (see Twitter blue thread).
- jffry 5y ago
  I sort of glossed over that thread earlier but oh my goodness that was a trainwreck, I'm glad you mentioned it and I went back to have a look
- dippindots44 5y ago
  That thread was moderated. You can tell because the founder’s opening introduction was pinned above dang pinning his own comment about a related thread. Those are conscious moderator actions which are about as transparent as it gets and illuminate the thinking on the other side (hint: you’re not aligned, but it sounds like you already expected that)
  - markdown 5y ago
    Except @dang was hiding negative comments about You.com. There's nothing transparent about that.
    - detaro 5y ago
      which negative comments where hidden? The entire threads are full of negative sentiment?
    - dippindots44 5y ago
      He replied to you explaining his reasons for detaching your completely shit comment. I found that explanation in ten seconds just by clicking on your name. I also found you replying to his reply, so it’s amusing to see you claim what went down wasn’t transparent. You were there, friendo. Way to go all debate club on dang with a clearly hurt essay after a pointless observation about the name being used as a verb didn’t score as you’d like. Don’t dilute this thread about (legitimately interesting) turfing with your simmering annoyance from being moderated for good reason. We all see what happened, it’s fairly transparent
      - markdown 5y ago
        This is HN, where how startups market and position themselves is discussed just as much as their tech stack is. In the context of a Show HN, pointing out a terrible name is just as relevant as pointing out bad code or a bug. A comment being negative =/= it being "completely shit".
  - eitland 5y ago
    Also dang did that to the other big Show HN story yesterday: "Show HN: I'm 48 and finally learning how to be a game developer" so it seems to be a new thing he does independently of if the post is by a YC company or not.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't jump to grandiose conclusions from a couple of data points from the stochastic stream. Given enough randomness (which we certainly have here), you can literally jump to any conclusion that way. This leads to false feelings of generality (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22false%20feelings%20of%20generality%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). The moderation practices haven't changed here for many years. We don't publish a moderation log for a bunch of reasons*, but I'm always happy to answer any questions and usually spend hours a day doing it. * Past explanations if anyone wants more: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20litigious&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
mereel 5y ago
Right now I only see one positive comment in the whole thread, did you see more when you posted? I’m curious if some were deleted.
vvarren 5y ago
I stayed in an Airbnb in Bangkok and in the middle of the night we found a guy under the bed. Airbnb was kind enough to refund us the replacement fee of the key we took with us as we ran for our life. Awful company.
- locusofself 5y ago
  ok you can't just say you "found a guy". was he alive? dead? a thief/perv?
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    The bed was probably listed as a separate budget "room" on AirBnB.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> If you are a tourist in most countries and "fly" back home, you are judgement proof. There only liability is the guests airbnb account, which, is worthless. You can create new accounts, and in most places you can use alternative government identification to bypass previous bans. This isn't necessarily true. If you fly the coop, you might be out of the reach of a host or local law enforcement, but in some places action could still be taken against you in your absence. While for all practical purposes, you might never have to face the consequences if you never plan to return unless you were accused of doing something really terrible (like murdering or seriously injuring someone), it's best not to get yourself into legal entanglements in foreign countries, whether criminal or civil. Especially if you do think you might want to visit again in the future. Also, AirBnB has taken legal action against guests itself[1], so that's potentially a risk in some cases too. One of the best ways to avoid finding yourself in precarious situations while traveling abroad is to stay in legal accommodations, be they licensed hotels, hostels, homestays, etc. It's also one of the best things you can do to respect the places you visit. AirBnB is a horrible company that has single-handedly ruined buildings and neighborhoods and even, arguably, significantly harmed many popular tourist destinations, with its inventory of frequently illegal short-term rentals. [1] https://sfist.com/2021/08/17/airbnb-is-suing-guest-who-threw-sunnyvale-house-party-that-ended-in-shooting/ https://sfist.com/2021/08/17/airbnb-is-suing-guest-who-threw...
dang 5y ago
> Wow, the astroturfing in this thread already is happening. The site guidelines specifically ask you not to post like that without evidence. Why? Because internet users routinely make these accusations up based on nothing more than seeing a few things (or just one thing) they happen not to like. There's nearly never anything more to it than that, therefore (a) it's off-topic here unless there's something objective to go on; and (b) if there is something objective to go on, you should let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we can specifically look into it. Please review the rules and stick to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. There's years worth of explanation about this at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... if anyone wants more.

numair 5y ago

There was a weird ad-post for You.com earlier, which I mistakenly thought was organic... And now this. HN needs a bit more transparency or it’s going to lose a few of us.

FuckedCompany 5y ago
HN has already lost a lot of quality posters over the last 10 years. It’s a drop in the bucket as more and more new registrations happen anyway. For the savvy reader: the best kind of astroturfing on a tech site involves nerdsniping. Make a small obvious error and you’ll get people trampling over each other to correct you. Never underestimate how smug stooges can pay off. Keep an eye out for these kinds of posts (see Twitter blue thread).
jffry 5y ago
I sort of glossed over that thread earlier but oh my goodness that was a trainwreck, I'm glad you mentioned it and I went back to have a look
dippindots44 5y ago
That thread was moderated. You can tell because the founder’s opening introduction was pinned above dang pinning his own comment about a related thread. Those are conscious moderator actions which are about as transparent as it gets and illuminate the thinking on the other side (hint: you’re not aligned, but it sounds like you already expected that)
- markdown 5y ago
  Except @dang was hiding negative comments about You.com. There's nothing transparent about that.
  - detaro 5y ago
    which negative comments where hidden? The entire threads are full of negative sentiment?
  - dippindots44 5y ago
    He replied to you explaining his reasons for detaching your completely shit comment. I found that explanation in ten seconds just by clicking on your name. I also found you replying to his reply, so it’s amusing to see you claim what went down wasn’t transparent. You were there, friendo. Way to go all debate club on dang with a clearly hurt essay after a pointless observation about the name being used as a verb didn’t score as you’d like. Don’t dilute this thread about (legitimately interesting) turfing with your simmering annoyance from being moderated for good reason. We all see what happened, it’s fairly transparent
    - markdown 5y ago
      This is HN, where how startups market and position themselves is discussed just as much as their tech stack is. In the context of a Show HN, pointing out a terrible name is just as relevant as pointing out bad code or a bug. A comment being negative =/= it being "completely shit".
- eitland 5y ago
  Also dang did that to the other big Show HN story yesterday: "Show HN: I'm 48 and finally learning how to be a game developer" so it seems to be a new thing he does independently of if the post is by a YC company or not.
dang 5y ago
Please don't jump to grandiose conclusions from a couple of data points from the stochastic stream. Given enough randomness (which we certainly have here), you can literally jump to any conclusion that way. This leads to false feelings of generality (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22false%20feelings%20of%20generality%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). The moderation practices haven't changed here for many years. We don't publish a moderation log for a bunch of reasons*, but I'm always happy to answer any questions and usually spend hours a day doing it. * Past explanations if anyone wants more: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20litigious&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

mereel 5y ago

Right now I only see one positive comment in the whole thread, did you see more when you posted? I’m curious if some were deleted.

vvarren 5y ago

I stayed in an Airbnb in Bangkok and in the middle of the night we found a guy under the bed. Airbnb was kind enough to refund us the replacement fee of the key we took with us as we ran for our life. Awful company.

locusofself 5y ago
ok you can't just say you "found a guy". was he alive? dead? a thief/perv?
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  The bed was probably listed as a separate budget "room" on AirBnB.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago

> If you are a tourist in most countries and "fly" back home, you are judgement proof. There only liability is the guests airbnb account, which, is worthless. You can create new accounts, and in most places you can use alternative government identification to bypass previous bans. This isn't necessarily true. If you fly the coop, you might be out of the reach of a host or local law enforcement, but in some places action could still be taken against you in your absence. While for all practical purposes, you might never have to face the consequences if you never plan to return unless you were accused of doing something really terrible (like murdering or seriously injuring someone), it's best not to get yourself into legal entanglements in foreign countries, whether criminal or civil. Especially if you do think you might want to visit again in the future. Also, AirBnB has taken legal action against guests itself[1], so that's potentially a risk in some cases too. One of the best ways to avoid finding yourself in precarious situations while traveling abroad is to stay in legal accommodations, be they licensed hotels, hostels, homestays, etc. It's also one of the best things you can do to respect the places you visit. AirBnB is a horrible company that has single-handedly ruined buildings and neighborhoods and even, arguably, significantly harmed many popular tourist destinations, with its inventory of frequently illegal short-term rentals. [1] https://sfist.com/2021/08/17/airbnb-is-suing-guest-who-threw-sunnyvale-house-party-that-ended-in-shooting/ https://sfist.com/2021/08/17/airbnb-is-suing-guest-who-threw...

dang 5y ago

> Wow, the astroturfing in this thread already is happening. The site guidelines specifically ask you not to post like that without evidence. Why? Because internet users routinely make these accusations up based on nothing more than seeing a few things (or just one thing) they happen not to like. There's nearly never anything more to it than that, therefore (a) it's off-topic here unless there's something objective to go on; and (b) if there is something objective to go on, you should let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we can specifically look into it. Please review the rules and stick to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. There's years worth of explanation about this at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... if anyone wants more.