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> With Schools using Google Forms as a testing platform, students are able to use this shortcut to search through the source of the page, and determine the corr

by l0b0 5y ago

> With Schools using Google Forms as a testing platform, students are able to use this shortcut to search through the source of the page, and determine the correct answers. So they're serving the answers with the questions, and get annoyed when the students figure this out. What a lark. How about using a system which doesn't do that?

epmatsw 5y ago
I’m not that surprised tbh. A couple of years back the Chrome Dev Summit quiz did the same thing. I thought that was the joke (“haha, they’re requesting allanswers.json at startup”), and didn’t realize it was apparently unintentional until they revealed I was in first place at the end of the day.
kyleee 5y ago
This is also the type of thing that plants the seed of interest for a career or hobby of computing, which is another reason it's stupid. Reward people's curiousity instead of punishing it, especially in a schooling situation!
- smashah 5y ago
  Precisely! I wonder what chain of events lead this PR being filed. How did the kid(s) get caught? Did a teacher decide to tell the IT department head? Did the head of department then tell the IT maintenance team? Then the IT maintenance team told the test vendor? Very odd chain of events to lead to such a dangerous change.
  - rp1 5y ago
    These types of "hacks" spread very quickly in school. Once the flaw is discovered, the entire class likely "aced" the test. From there, it's pretty obvious how the vendor found out: the school could no longer use the testing software and demanded an answer.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- gregmac 5y ago
  I got a crash course in running proxy servers and various VPNs when I was in school, due to the school blocking stuff. I don't recall what sites I was even trying to get to (pre-facebook) nor do I remember really caring about them, but just working around the blocks was particularly fun.
  - zbrozek 5y ago
    I had a similar experience, but in my case it was less that the school was blocking particular sites I wanted to visit, and more that there was a single very-slow proxy server for the entire state's educational system. So I ssh tunneled to my home instead.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    I remember I had to learn how to evade the school proxy in order to get to the Sun Java documentation.
- YPPH 5y ago
  Students will not get by in life by viewing the source code when confronted with any problem.
  - goda90 5y ago
    Students will not learn to experiment with technology if they are blocked on every attempt.
    - YPPH 5y ago
      Time and place. Taking a math quiz is the wrong time to experiment with bypassing quizzes.
      - scrollaway 5y ago
        Why is that?
        anoonmoose 5y ago
        Because the goal of the quiz is to test math knowledge, not software bypassing knowledge.
        BeFlatXIII 5y ago
        And the goal of the student taking that quiz is to get the highest grade by any means necessary. Learning is entirely irrelevant.
        anoonmoose 5y ago
        And since the student taking the quiz very frequently has no choice over whether or not they have to be there or take the quiz, their desires and goals are entirely irrelevant. Edit: are you intentionally or unintentionally trying to justify any and all cheating as a means to get the highest grade possible?
QuinnG 5y ago
Google Forms lets you set an answer key with correct answers which are not exposed client-side in the responder view[1]. Teachers complaining that students can see "answers" are using a different feature[2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUulhc5D4dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUulhc5D4dg [2] https://support.google.com/docs/answer/3378864 https://support.google.com/docs/answer/3378864
userbinator 5y ago
It's funny that 15-20 years ago when real HTML forms were the norm for stuff like this, this wouldn't be a problem. It's only one created by the reliance (or default?) to client-side JS for everything.
LinAGKar 5y ago
But why would a person go through a multi-step process and decode the HTML source code, that's illegal, right?

by l0b0 5y ago

epmatsw 5y ago

I’m not that surprised tbh. A couple of years back the Chrome Dev Summit quiz did the same thing. I thought that was the joke (“haha, they’re requesting allanswers.json at startup”), and didn’t realize it was apparently unintentional until they revealed I was in first place at the end of the day.

kyleee 5y ago

This is also the type of thing that plants the seed of interest for a career or hobby of computing, which is another reason it's stupid. Reward people's curiousity instead of punishing it, especially in a schooling situation!

smashah 5y ago
Precisely! I wonder what chain of events lead this PR being filed. How did the kid(s) get caught? Did a teacher decide to tell the IT department head? Did the head of department then tell the IT maintenance team? Then the IT maintenance team told the test vendor? Very odd chain of events to lead to such a dangerous change.
- rp1 5y ago
  These types of "hacks" spread very quickly in school. Once the flaw is discovered, the entire class likely "aced" the test. From there, it's pretty obvious how the vendor found out: the school could no longer use the testing software and demanded an answer.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gregmac 5y ago
I got a crash course in running proxy servers and various VPNs when I was in school, due to the school blocking stuff. I don't recall what sites I was even trying to get to (pre-facebook) nor do I remember really caring about them, but just working around the blocks was particularly fun.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  I had a similar experience, but in my case it was less that the school was blocking particular sites I wanted to visit, and more that there was a single very-slow proxy server for the entire state's educational system. So I ssh tunneled to my home instead.
- thrower123 5y ago
  I remember I had to learn how to evade the school proxy in order to get to the Sun Java documentation.
YPPH 5y ago
Students will not get by in life by viewing the source code when confronted with any problem.
- goda90 5y ago
  Students will not learn to experiment with technology if they are blocked on every attempt.
  - YPPH 5y ago
    Time and place. Taking a math quiz is the wrong time to experiment with bypassing quizzes.
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      Why is that?
      - anoonmoose 5y ago
        Because the goal of the quiz is to test math knowledge, not software bypassing knowledge.
        BeFlatXIII 5y ago
        And the goal of the student taking that quiz is to get the highest grade by any means necessary. Learning is entirely irrelevant.
        anoonmoose 5y ago
        And since the student taking the quiz very frequently has no choice over whether or not they have to be there or take the quiz, their desires and goals are entirely irrelevant. Edit: are you intentionally or unintentionally trying to justify any and all cheating as a means to get the highest grade possible?

QuinnG 5y ago

Google Forms lets you set an answer key with correct answers which are not exposed client-side in the responder view[1]. Teachers complaining that students can see "answers" are using a different feature[2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUulhc5D4dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUulhc5D4dg [2] https://support.google.com/docs/answer/3378864 https://support.google.com/docs/answer/3378864

userbinator 5y ago

It's funny that 15-20 years ago when real HTML forms were the norm for stuff like this, this wouldn't be a problem. It's only one created by the reliance (or default?) to client-side JS for everything.

LinAGKar 5y ago

But why would a person go through a multi-step process and decode the HTML source code, that's illegal, right?