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>Telling someone who is in emotional pain to buck up is invalidating and dismissive. Not only are you diminishing their feelings, you’re telling them that these

>Telling someone who is in emotional pain to buck up is invalidating and dismissive. Not only are you diminishing their feelings, you’re telling them that these feelings are part of their problem. Or it's the result of a lifetime of learning about your own emotional reactions. If teaching is toxic, who can learn?

quantified 5y ago
If their mode prevents them from receiving your wisdom, is it on you to change your presentation or on them to change their mode? And likewise when you’re on the receiving end? Or is this a joint responsibility?
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’ve learned a lot that’s helped me cope with, or resolve or work towards resolution of things that have caused me incredible pain. Almost none of it I’ve learned from being treated as a pupil while in the depths of that pain. Quite a lot I’ve learned from having a patient ear attached to a caring person who gave me space to process what I was experiencing. Quite a lot more was from time to let the worst subside and process more alone. In the latter, I’ve learned more from others than I ever have from their direct advice. The problem with teaching people when they’re in a moment of profound weakness is there’s an implied demand: my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind, choose one.
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  >my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind That's not just a problem with teaching, it's the entire problem. Understanding both these things will be true at the same time requires maturation or emotional discipline, which it's not yet taboo to describe as learned behaviors.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Here’s what I actually said: > The problem with teaching people when they’re in a moment of profound weakness is there’s an implied demand: my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind, choose one. You’re just making the demand explicit. It’s still a demand, not a fact. Edit: to be really clear, this attitude that you have rational advice and I’m irrational is a way to ensure that any approach you take that shows any hint of it is suspect. You may believe it all you want, you might even be correct, but I’m just getting manipulation signals.
    - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
      You're wrong, and that's why anybody helping you will fall on deaf ears. Humans are irrational. Irrationality can be managed, understood, and harnessed. Don't pretend that grief is an impenetrable weapon against rational thought.

quantified 5y ago

If their mode prevents them from receiving your wisdom, is it on you to change your presentation or on them to change their mode? And likewise when you’re on the receiving end? Or is this a joint responsibility?

eyelidlessness 5y ago

I’ve learned a lot that’s helped me cope with, or resolve or work towards resolution of things that have caused me incredible pain. Almost none of it I’ve learned from being treated as a pupil while in the depths of that pain. Quite a lot I’ve learned from having a patient ear attached to a caring person who gave me space to process what I was experiencing. Quite a lot more was from time to let the worst subside and process more alone. In the latter, I’ve learned more from others than I ever have from their direct advice. The problem with teaching people when they’re in a moment of profound weakness is there’s an implied demand: my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind, choose one.

readflaggedcomm 5y ago
>my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind That's not just a problem with teaching, it's the entire problem. Understanding both these things will be true at the same time requires maturation or emotional discipline, which it's not yet taboo to describe as learned behaviors.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  Here’s what I actually said: > The problem with teaching people when they’re in a moment of profound weakness is there’s an implied demand: my advice is rational, you aren’t in a rational state of mind, choose one. You’re just making the demand explicit. It’s still a demand, not a fact. Edit: to be really clear, this attitude that you have rational advice and I’m irrational is a way to ensure that any approach you take that shows any hint of it is suspect. You may believe it all you want, you might even be correct, but I’m just getting manipulation signals.
  - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
    You're wrong, and that's why anybody helping you will fall on deaf ears. Humans are irrational. Irrationality can be managed, understood, and harnessed. Don't pretend that grief is an impenetrable weapon against rational thought.