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How is that possible? The fact that you are using Tor is detectable by ISPs just like it is detectable that you are using VPNs. Also, it's sometimes possible to

How is that possible? The fact that you are using Tor is detectable by ISPs just like it is detectable that you are using VPNs. Also, it's sometimes possible to de-anonymize your Tor traffic, and state-level actors would be capable to do so if they wanted. https://www.thesecmaster.com/4-types-of-attacks-on-the-tor-network-to-de-anonymize-tor-users/ https://www.thesecmaster.com/4-types-of-attacks-on-the-tor-n...

cosentiyes 5y ago
TOR bridges aren't publicly listed and support various obfuscation methods: https://tb-manual.torproject.org/bridges/ https://tb-manual.torproject.org/bridges/
- bouncycastle 5y ago
  Look at the language of that page. All the statements are without certainty, eg it's not "an adversary cannot identify them" but "an adversary cannot identify them easily."
  - cosentiyes 5y ago
    Yes, the tor project is very transparent that anonymity is not guaranteed. Bridges and obfuscation tools are simply one possible answer to the "how is [connecting to tor without ISP detection] possible?" question. The linked article tries to imply that Ross Ulbricht's arrest was somehow the result of deanonymized tor traffic, but in reality many (most?) large DNM [1,2] and malware/hacking arrests seem to be the result of poor opsec [3]. [1] https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/online-privacy-through-opsec-and-compartmentalization-part-2/ https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/online-privacy-through-o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaBay#Seizure_and_shutdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaBay#Seizure_and_shutdown [3] https://krebsonsecurity.com/category/breadcrumbs/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/category/breadcrumbs/
    - bouncycastle 5y ago
      Obfuscation is a cat-and-mouse game and with enough resources, it's always possible to detect. While Tor is OK for privacy from your ISP or the big-tech firms, certainly not for what the OP described. I think recommending Tor as the definite solution for these types of people is irresponsible.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    If you ever see security software that promises absolutes, you should view it like an investment opportunity that allegedly only goes up and can't possibly go down (i.e. you're about to lose all your money)

cosentiyes 5y ago

TOR bridges aren't publicly listed and support various obfuscation methods: https://tb-manual.torproject.org/bridges/ https://tb-manual.torproject.org/bridges/

bouncycastle 5y ago
Look at the language of that page. All the statements are without certainty, eg it's not "an adversary cannot identify them" but "an adversary cannot identify them easily."
- cosentiyes 5y ago
  Yes, the tor project is very transparent that anonymity is not guaranteed. Bridges and obfuscation tools are simply one possible answer to the "how is [connecting to tor without ISP detection] possible?" question. The linked article tries to imply that Ross Ulbricht's arrest was somehow the result of deanonymized tor traffic, but in reality many (most?) large DNM [1,2] and malware/hacking arrests seem to be the result of poor opsec [3]. [1] https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/online-privacy-through-opsec-and-compartmentalization-part-2/ https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/online-privacy-through-o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaBay#Seizure_and_shutdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaBay#Seizure_and_shutdown [3] https://krebsonsecurity.com/category/breadcrumbs/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/category/breadcrumbs/
  - bouncycastle 5y ago
    Obfuscation is a cat-and-mouse game and with enough resources, it's always possible to detect. While Tor is OK for privacy from your ISP or the big-tech firms, certainly not for what the OP described. I think recommending Tor as the definite solution for these types of people is irresponsible.
- bawolff 5y ago
  If you ever see security software that promises absolutes, you should view it like an investment opportunity that allegedly only goes up and can't possibly go down (i.e. you're about to lose all your money)