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Well it may depress you even more that I didn't even expect constructive feedback like yours when I pulled in Germany into this discussion (it is the Elephant i

Well it may depress you even more that I didn't even expect constructive feedback like yours when I pulled in Germany into this discussion (it is the Elephant in the European Grid-Operators-Room anyways). > 1. Coal Yes, from Poland > 2. Renewables Yes, definetly > Solar Already plans underway to force every new home to have solar panels on its roof, regardless of the direction of the gabel and regardless how non-significant solar energy is in Germany anyways. Existing home-owners love the idea of increasing construction costs for future home-owners... > Wind Already plans underway to massively increase density of windmills per km, regardless that the existing mills already are turned off for most of the year (because it would melt the grid to keep them running), regardless that we're chopping down huge amounts of trees to make room for them, regardless of the environmental impact of planting unremovable kilo-tons of concrete footing into the ground > Ocean Currents No, for two reasons. One: Maintenance costs make this technology inefficient (rust). Two: Since we're world champions in moral soundness our whole tidal-range-gifted coastline is deemed a national park and as such is forever excluded from any such infrastructure work > 3. imported oil Already doing that. I fear, unless there is some crucial pain of whatever sorts on behalf of the average German, our nomenclatura will continue to proceed with the current polciy of "nearshoring responsibility". Because: > It ain't gonna happen. People won't meaningfully reduce their energy-consumption German consumers still don't do that, despite paying the highest electricity bills in the developed world (almost twice of what the French pay). Apparently we can still afford to kick down the can (or rather to kick it across the border).

natmaka 5y ago
> German consumers still don't do that, despite paying the highest electricity bills in the developed world (almost twice of what the French pay). No (France .32, Germany .19), and this comparison isn't sound because the financial models differ: Germany finances its transition by taxes on energy, and France mainly finances it thanks to other taxes (the consolidated tax burden is way higher in France). Prices: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Moreover higher prices are a way to moderate consumption and entice energy-saving approaches.
- woodpanel 5y ago
  Sorry, your price link is contradicting you. Meanwhile you've left out that aside from energy-taxation, Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world as well. France must have some very elaborate scheme hiding this great price-equalizer.
  - natmaka 5y ago
    > Sorry, your price link is contradicting you .32 is in my book far from "almost 2 times" .19 > Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world Nope, the tax burden is way higher in France: 46.2% of GDP in 2020, while Germany is at 37.5% Secondary source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
    - woodpanel 5y ago
      > .32 is in my book far from "almost 2 times" .19 I mean you've written it yourself: "almost" > Nope, the tax burden is way higher in France: 46.2% of GDP in 2020, while Germany is at 37.5% And then you're leaving out secial-security costs, way to go! https://img.welt.de/img/wirtschaft/mobile207627583/3297937857-coriginal-w1200/DWO-WI-OECD-Bruttolohn-fb.jpg https://img.welt.de/img/wirtschaft/mobile207627583/329793785...
      - natmaka 5y ago
        > I mean you've written it yourself: "almost" Nope. I was quoting you (with the '>' sign, just as you do). Please re-read. > And then you're leaving out secial-security costs False, once more. France is clearly way ahead of Germany, and for quite a long time (and until now I thought it is well-known): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_we...
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world as well. Having lived in a couple of Nordic countries for most[1] of my life, allow me to be sceptical about that. ___ [1]: Unter fünf Johr im Ländle wo jeadas Haus a Häusle isch.

natmaka 5y ago

> German consumers still don't do that, despite paying the highest electricity bills in the developed world (almost twice of what the French pay). No (France .32, Germany .19), and this comparison isn't sound because the financial models differ: Germany finances its transition by taxes on energy, and France mainly finances it thanks to other taxes (the consolidated tax burden is way higher in France). Prices: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Moreover higher prices are a way to moderate consumption and entice energy-saving approaches.

woodpanel 5y ago
Sorry, your price link is contradicting you. Meanwhile you've left out that aside from energy-taxation, Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world as well. France must have some very elaborate scheme hiding this great price-equalizer.
- natmaka 5y ago
  > Sorry, your price link is contradicting you .32 is in my book far from "almost 2 times" .19 > Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world Nope, the tax burden is way higher in France: 46.2% of GDP in 2020, while Germany is at 37.5% Secondary source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
  - woodpanel 5y ago
    > .32 is in my book far from "almost 2 times" .19 I mean you've written it yourself: "almost" > Nope, the tax burden is way higher in France: 46.2% of GDP in 2020, while Germany is at 37.5% And then you're leaving out secial-security costs, way to go! https://img.welt.de/img/wirtschaft/mobile207627583/3297937857-coriginal-w1200/DWO-WI-OECD-Bruttolohn-fb.jpg https://img.welt.de/img/wirtschaft/mobile207627583/329793785...
    - natmaka 5y ago
      > I mean you've written it yourself: "almost" Nope. I was quoting you (with the '>' sign, just as you do). Please re-read. > And then you're leaving out secial-security costs False, once more. France is clearly way ahead of Germany, and for quite a long time (and until now I thought it is well-known): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_we...
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > Germans already are having the highest income-tax and social-security costs of the developed world as well. Having lived in a couple of Nordic countries for most[1] of my life, allow me to be sceptical about that. ___ [1]: Unter fünf Johr im Ländle wo jeadas Haus a Häusle isch.