19 ms·

Google closes Android developer complaint forums

86 points by jen_h 15y ago

jewishprofit 15y ago
This would be a good time to remind everyone that Sergey Brin was born in Russia during Soviet rule.
- mcherm 15y ago
  Here we are trying to keep the level of discourse at Hacker News from descending to that of Reddit and you have to go and bring it down to the level of Slashdot. (My apologies for feeding the troll.)
  - guywithabike 15y ago
    If you're going to apologize for feeding a troll, don't be a troll yourself. Hacker News is a community like any other -- Reddit, Slashdot, Ars Technica, or otherwise. Hacker News is not some elite race of enlightened beings engaging in superior forms of advanced discourse.
    - _delirium 15y ago
      I like reading comments here, and still find that (recurring) view a bit offputting. I also like reading comments at Slashdot, though it does indeed have a different feel. Probably a lower S/N ratio, but also a broader range of knowledgeable people. I don't have any census data, but it feels like HN's expertise is highly concentrated in the software space, while a Slashdot story on an appropriate topic can elicit knowledgeable posts from ChemEs, MechEs, biologists, etc.
    - hiss 15y ago
      HN is more like Digg of yore than Slashdot, but with a higher signal to noise ratio. However a large chunk of HN's readership are sheeple who lack life experience and will quote patio11 as if he's Nietzsche. EDIT: I like and admire Patrick, and there is no reason why anyone shouldn't.
- szarecor 15y ago
  Is that a cue for Russian reversal jokes (I can't think of a good one) or just a dumb attempt to equate Google with totalitarianism?
shaggyfrog 15y ago
Another "open" move for Android.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  Did you read the article? My understanding from devs that I follow is that the current feedback system is pretty awful. If they're going to focus on better ways of fostering dev/Market support, that seems like a good thing. (I'm downvoted for saying the same thing the top comment did, before that comment existed? OK? Cool story guys, it's not like the article implies a change in how Google handles these issues in an attempt to handle them better.)
  - shaggyfrog 15y ago
    Of course I read the article. The point is that Google seems to love throwing around the "open" and "closed" buzzwords, irrespective of how much hypocrisy they engage in on a regular basis.
  - dpcan 15y ago
    There was nothing in the forum post from Google about "improving" anything. They directed us to contact forms that always existed. Just TRY using those contact forms. I haven't tried today, but when I used them in the past, the first thing I received was a canned response that had nothing to do with the problem. I would reply saying that this canned response didn't help and to please actually read my question. About a week later, and this has happened to me over and over again, I would get another response saying they recently changed things in the Android Market that should have solved my problem. Uhm, changed what? Did you read my question? Are you a robot? It's infuriating. If this is all we have now, I won't email either. I already have copies of the responses they send back.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    crickets Keeping hitting that arrow!
jen_h 15y ago
If this means that developer issues are going to be reviewed, responded to, and addressed by a real human being, and real public communication (maybe through the Dev Console, eh?) will be exchanged between Google and developers when issues arise, this is a very good thing - for both developers and Google. Reading these long, terrible, ranty threads that rarely contain any comment from Google is demoralizing and depressing for everyone involved. If this means the Marketplace forums are closed and nothing else changes, this is terrible. Though maybe there's some silver lining there...one less place to post a "Hey, Google, PLEASE look at this! Please, please, pretty please!! Hey, guys! Hey, guys!" would probably save us all at least a few minutes of time. ;)
- dpcan 15y ago
  I didn't see anything in that forum post from Google about improving or adding anything. I just saw a link to the already awful contact form and a message basically telling me to stay out. I went to this forum every day to gauge whether I was the only one experiencing a problem or not. Was I the only one seeing the "Just In" category missing? Was the Market not loading for everyone else? Did anyone else not get their full payout this month? Is anyone else unable to upload to the Dev console? Is everyone seeing the "authorization" failures again? Is the sales report missing for everyone else for July? At least seeing others with the same problem there meant that they were telling Google, or Google was seeing the problem in the forums, and I could chime in with a "me too" post so they knew it was wide spread. Emailing using those forms is hopeless. Canned responses come back. I don't know if anyone ever read my question. This is one sad and frustrating move by Google. TO GOOGLE: Just open a private developers-only thread accessible from our Developer Consoles. That would be nice.
  - lukeinth 15y ago
    I used it in exactly the same way.. when I saw an issue I would check for forums to see if others were experiencing the same issue. I'm not sure I would have noticed payouts being lower than they should have been without the forum, and I'm not 100% convinced Google would have either. The "known issues" page only lists a small subset of the real issues with the market. Also more often than not when they fix something, something else breaks.
georgieporgie 15y ago
Since it sounds like Google didn't participate in the forum in any meaningful way, users will just migrate somewhere else. Personally, I find it more frustrating to be given a proprietary 'help' forum manned by users as clueless as myself. If it's not getting me professional help, I'd rather use a Newsgroup or similar.
palebluedot 15y ago
I have published apps, and I would gladly pay an annual fee for increased publisher support. The developer documents and engineering engagement is already pretty good from an actual app development perspective... but when things with the android market goes sideways, the support and communication is really pretty bad. To make matters worse, it is usually completely out of the app developers control to fix it. When it was an issue that I knew others were facing, I felt pretty confident that it would eventually be fixed, because enough noise would be made. I know several Android developers, and they all feel frustrated and befuddled by the lack of developer support - and we are all willing to pay extra for it. This is, with at least what we know now, another step backwards.
- dpcan 15y ago
  The problem with this argument is that many of us are making significant money in the Market, and we feel pretty strongly that for that 30% cut Google gets of our sales, we should be getting way better support. Hell, GREAT support. Then turning us away from a public forum is like spit in our face. Over the last year, I ALONE have given up enough in that 30% to pay the salary of at least a part-time employee just to handle support. People claim to THINK they know where this 30% is going - maybe to a carrier, or maybe to Google, but Google hasn't officially explained what that 30% is for - at least not anywhere that I've seen.
  - palebluedot 15y ago
    Hmm. I am not saying they shouldn't be doing better, with just their 30% cut. I am saying I would be willing to pay an annual fee for better support, and the other developers I know personally would as well. It is not mutually exclusive position - I am being pragmatic, and if $X/year gave me good support, then sign me up... even if I think they should be doing better with their 30%. I just ultimately want the problem solved; I am definitely willing to pay, because I don't want my revenue stream jeopardized for the lack of market support should a problem arise. But yes, they could be doing better right now.
  - esrauch 15y ago
    I have seen articles claiming that Google gets nothing from sales, though it's not really clear. See [1] for example that says that the entire 30% goes to the carriers and billing settlement fees. [1] http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/google-takes-he/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/google-takes-he/
skrebbel 15y ago
Given Google's excellent track record on direct contact customer support, I trust this will be an great step forward for the entire community!
- technoslut 15y ago
  I do hope you're being ironic because Google Docs has been poor in support for indies.
tszming 15y ago
In contrast, Apple TELEPHONE support for developer is worldwide (http://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.php http://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.php). I feel comfortable to pay them $99 per year.
alohahacker 15y ago
Being a dev myself this is def going to hurt us developers because it seemed we could all come together in the forums and compare/contrast problems with each other. The best thing would us to migrate to another forum where developers can brainstorm together. Is there any forum that all devs are moving too?

86 points by jen_h 15y ago

jewishprofit 15y ago

This would be a good time to remind everyone that Sergey Brin was born in Russia during Soviet rule.

mcherm 15y ago
Here we are trying to keep the level of discourse at Hacker News from descending to that of Reddit and you have to go and bring it down to the level of Slashdot. (My apologies for feeding the troll.)
- guywithabike 15y ago
  If you're going to apologize for feeding a troll, don't be a troll yourself. Hacker News is a community like any other -- Reddit, Slashdot, Ars Technica, or otherwise. Hacker News is not some elite race of enlightened beings engaging in superior forms of advanced discourse.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    I like reading comments here, and still find that (recurring) view a bit offputting. I also like reading comments at Slashdot, though it does indeed have a different feel. Probably a lower S/N ratio, but also a broader range of knowledgeable people. I don't have any census data, but it feels like HN's expertise is highly concentrated in the software space, while a Slashdot story on an appropriate topic can elicit knowledgeable posts from ChemEs, MechEs, biologists, etc.
  - hiss 15y ago
    HN is more like Digg of yore than Slashdot, but with a higher signal to noise ratio. However a large chunk of HN's readership are sheeple who lack life experience and will quote patio11 as if he's Nietzsche. EDIT: I like and admire Patrick, and there is no reason why anyone shouldn't.
szarecor 15y ago
Is that a cue for Russian reversal jokes (I can't think of a good one) or just a dumb attempt to equate Google with totalitarianism?

shaggyfrog 15y ago

Another "open" move for Android.

drivebyacct2 15y ago
Did you read the article? My understanding from devs that I follow is that the current feedback system is pretty awful. If they're going to focus on better ways of fostering dev/Market support, that seems like a good thing. (I'm downvoted for saying the same thing the top comment did, before that comment existed? OK? Cool story guys, it's not like the article implies a change in how Google handles these issues in an attempt to handle them better.)
- shaggyfrog 15y ago
  Of course I read the article. The point is that Google seems to love throwing around the "open" and "closed" buzzwords, irrespective of how much hypocrisy they engage in on a regular basis.
- dpcan 15y ago
  There was nothing in the forum post from Google about "improving" anything. They directed us to contact forms that always existed. Just TRY using those contact forms. I haven't tried today, but when I used them in the past, the first thing I received was a canned response that had nothing to do with the problem. I would reply saying that this canned response didn't help and to please actually read my question. About a week later, and this has happened to me over and over again, I would get another response saying they recently changed things in the Android Market that should have solved my problem. Uhm, changed what? Did you read my question? Are you a robot? It's infuriating. If this is all we have now, I won't email either. I already have copies of the responses they send back.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  crickets Keeping hitting that arrow!

jen_h 15y ago

If this means that developer issues are going to be reviewed, responded to, and addressed by a real human being, and real public communication (maybe through the Dev Console, eh?) will be exchanged between Google and developers when issues arise, this is a very good thing - for both developers and Google. Reading these long, terrible, ranty threads that rarely contain any comment from Google is demoralizing and depressing for everyone involved. If this means the Marketplace forums are closed and nothing else changes, this is terrible. Though maybe there's some silver lining there...one less place to post a "Hey, Google, PLEASE look at this! Please, please, pretty please!! Hey, guys! Hey, guys!" would probably save us all at least a few minutes of time. ;)

dpcan 15y ago
I didn't see anything in that forum post from Google about improving or adding anything. I just saw a link to the already awful contact form and a message basically telling me to stay out. I went to this forum every day to gauge whether I was the only one experiencing a problem or not. Was I the only one seeing the "Just In" category missing? Was the Market not loading for everyone else? Did anyone else not get their full payout this month? Is anyone else unable to upload to the Dev console? Is everyone seeing the "authorization" failures again? Is the sales report missing for everyone else for July? At least seeing others with the same problem there meant that they were telling Google, or Google was seeing the problem in the forums, and I could chime in with a "me too" post so they knew it was wide spread. Emailing using those forms is hopeless. Canned responses come back. I don't know if anyone ever read my question. This is one sad and frustrating move by Google. TO GOOGLE: Just open a private developers-only thread accessible from our Developer Consoles. That would be nice.
- lukeinth 15y ago
  I used it in exactly the same way.. when I saw an issue I would check for forums to see if others were experiencing the same issue. I'm not sure I would have noticed payouts being lower than they should have been without the forum, and I'm not 100% convinced Google would have either. The "known issues" page only lists a small subset of the real issues with the market. Also more often than not when they fix something, something else breaks.

georgieporgie 15y ago

Since it sounds like Google didn't participate in the forum in any meaningful way, users will just migrate somewhere else. Personally, I find it more frustrating to be given a proprietary 'help' forum manned by users as clueless as myself. If it's not getting me professional help, I'd rather use a Newsgroup or similar.

palebluedot 15y ago

I have published apps, and I would gladly pay an annual fee for increased publisher support. The developer documents and engineering engagement is already pretty good from an actual app development perspective... but when things with the android market goes sideways, the support and communication is really pretty bad. To make matters worse, it is usually completely out of the app developers control to fix it. When it was an issue that I knew others were facing, I felt pretty confident that it would eventually be fixed, because enough noise would be made. I know several Android developers, and they all feel frustrated and befuddled by the lack of developer support - and we are all willing to pay extra for it. This is, with at least what we know now, another step backwards.

dpcan 15y ago
The problem with this argument is that many of us are making significant money in the Market, and we feel pretty strongly that for that 30% cut Google gets of our sales, we should be getting way better support. Hell, GREAT support. Then turning us away from a public forum is like spit in our face. Over the last year, I ALONE have given up enough in that 30% to pay the salary of at least a part-time employee just to handle support. People claim to THINK they know where this 30% is going - maybe to a carrier, or maybe to Google, but Google hasn't officially explained what that 30% is for - at least not anywhere that I've seen.
- palebluedot 15y ago
  Hmm. I am not saying they shouldn't be doing better, with just their 30% cut. I am saying I would be willing to pay an annual fee for better support, and the other developers I know personally would as well. It is not mutually exclusive position - I am being pragmatic, and if $X/year gave me good support, then sign me up... even if I think they should be doing better with their 30%. I just ultimately want the problem solved; I am definitely willing to pay, because I don't want my revenue stream jeopardized for the lack of market support should a problem arise. But yes, they could be doing better right now.
- esrauch 15y ago
  I have seen articles claiming that Google gets nothing from sales, though it's not really clear. See [1] for example that says that the entire 30% goes to the carriers and billing settlement fees. [1] http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/google-takes-he/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/google-takes-he/

skrebbel 15y ago

Given Google's excellent track record on direct contact customer support, I trust this will be an great step forward for the entire community!

technoslut 15y ago
I do hope you're being ironic because Google Docs has been poor in support for indies.

tszming 15y ago

In contrast, Apple TELEPHONE support for developer is worldwide (http://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.php http://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.php). I feel comfortable to pay them $99 per year.

alohahacker 15y ago

Being a dev myself this is def going to hurt us developers because it seemed we could all come together in the forums and compare/contrast problems with each other. The best thing would us to migrate to another forum where developers can brainstorm together. Is there any forum that all devs are moving too?