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>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels

by FpUser 5y ago

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

arcticfox 5y ago
I feel like McCarthyism requires pointing fingers in particular directions with no evidence. Neither was done there
- FpUser 5y ago
  It is exactly what was done here: blaming people with having "strong Chinese interests" with no evidence.
passer_byer 5y ago
> What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life. No need to go that far back in the history of the U.S. Government spying on it's own citizens. In the late 1960's, the Nixon Administration used IRS data to spy on Vietnam war protesters, Dr. Martin Luther King, members of the Student's Non-Violent Coordination Committee, and other American citizens critical of the administration's foreign policy[1]. Human behavior being what it is means that eventually someone in the U.S. government will be tempted to use this data for nefarious purposes. Why should US citizens live in a survaillence state contrary to the Bill of Rights? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
edgyquant 5y ago
I feel like equating someone asking why pro-Chinese sentiment seems to be taking place with McCarthyism is dishonest and a quick way to shut down a legitimate question.
- FpUser 5y ago
  May I ask what is "dishonest" about what I wrote? It is my opinion and I am entitled to it (yet). And how did it "shut down a legitimate question"?
  - triactual 5y ago
    It’s such hyperbole that it’s difficult for anyone to believe that it isn’t simply a statement made in bad faith.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      >"...difficult for anyone..." Whole three of you sure qualifies for "anyone". >"...statement made in bad faith..." Labeling concerned users as Chinese agents is just that.
      - edgyquant 5y ago
        Saying a website may have pro-Chinese users pushing a narrative is nowhere equivalent to the accusations of McCarthy which had the backing of the US government and the weight if the law behind them. That is why your comment comes off as dishonest.
        FpUser 5y ago
        Originally: "It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests" Now: "...website may have pro-Chinese users..." Progressing from "really feels" to "may have" is of course nice touch. As for McCarthy - government backing or not, the general attitude of labeling opponents as foreign agents puts you on the same wavelength. It is not me being dishonest here. Am I China government agent / sympathizer? Fucking no. Do I believe that mass surveillance is something that belongs more to China rather than "free" western world - yes.
        edgyquant 5y ago
        You are being purposefully dense. “Feels like” and “may have” do not have very different implications. In fact, I’m more convinced you’re being dishonest now than I was just based off of your McCarthy comment. It also isn’t labeling opponents as foreign agents it is saying that people attempting to equate US credit score, which has to do with the ability to get loans and little else, to Chinas social credit system is fishy especially when accounts that come out in full to defend China are regularly linked to actual Chinese people. It doesn’t mean everyone doing so is, and it isn’t anyone asking for these people to be arrested or charged, but it does mean that there are pro-Chinese users on most social media and anyone arguing other wise is suspect at least.
unethical_ban 5y ago
Is there a United States senator in this thread compelling people to testify, and then ruining their careers and livelihoods over baseless claims?
boringg 5y ago
I don't think you actually know understand what happened in the Joseph McCarthy era but thanks for diluting the terrible nature of what Joseph McCarthy did by conflating it to my idle comment about the increased misinformation around China and US. Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary that I was referring to that seems to be spreading around the internet.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary" Lemme return a favor - your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like it is coming from an agent failing at the job and resorting to labelling anyone who disagrees with the party line as the agents of China. The original theme - do not do mass surveillance. It looks like we are doing same things as China. You can find this lacking of substance / lie and I respect that. But labeling bearer as China sympathizer is total bollocks. I am not.
boringg 5y ago
I do apologize I should have been specific in saying Peoples Republic of China to clarify that I meant the Government in control of China and not the people who live under their rule.

by FpUser 5y ago

arcticfox 5y ago

I feel like McCarthyism requires pointing fingers in particular directions with no evidence. Neither was done there

FpUser 5y ago
It is exactly what was done here: blaming people with having "strong Chinese interests" with no evidence.

passer_byer 5y ago

> What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life. No need to go that far back in the history of the U.S. Government spying on it's own citizens. In the late 1960's, the Nixon Administration used IRS data to spy on Vietnam war protesters, Dr. Martin Luther King, members of the Student's Non-Violent Coordination Committee, and other American citizens critical of the administration's foreign policy[1]. Human behavior being what it is means that eventually someone in the U.S. government will be tempted to use this data for nefarious purposes. Why should US citizens live in a survaillence state contrary to the Bill of Rights? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

edgyquant 5y ago

I feel like equating someone asking why pro-Chinese sentiment seems to be taking place with McCarthyism is dishonest and a quick way to shut down a legitimate question.

FpUser 5y ago
May I ask what is "dishonest" about what I wrote? It is my opinion and I am entitled to it (yet). And how did it "shut down a legitimate question"?
- triactual 5y ago
  It’s such hyperbole that it’s difficult for anyone to believe that it isn’t simply a statement made in bad faith.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    >"...difficult for anyone..." Whole three of you sure qualifies for "anyone". >"...statement made in bad faith..." Labeling concerned users as Chinese agents is just that.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Saying a website may have pro-Chinese users pushing a narrative is nowhere equivalent to the accusations of McCarthy which had the backing of the US government and the weight if the law behind them. That is why your comment comes off as dishonest.
      - FpUser 5y ago
        Originally: "It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests" Now: "...website may have pro-Chinese users..." Progressing from "really feels" to "may have" is of course nice touch. As for McCarthy - government backing or not, the general attitude of labeling opponents as foreign agents puts you on the same wavelength. It is not me being dishonest here. Am I China government agent / sympathizer? Fucking no. Do I believe that mass surveillance is something that belongs more to China rather than "free" western world - yes.
        edgyquant 5y ago
        You are being purposefully dense. “Feels like” and “may have” do not have very different implications. In fact, I’m more convinced you’re being dishonest now than I was just based off of your McCarthy comment. It also isn’t labeling opponents as foreign agents it is saying that people attempting to equate US credit score, which has to do with the ability to get loans and little else, to Chinas social credit system is fishy especially when accounts that come out in full to defend China are regularly linked to actual Chinese people. It doesn’t mean everyone doing so is, and it isn’t anyone asking for these people to be arrested or charged, but it does mean that there are pro-Chinese users on most social media and anyone arguing other wise is suspect at least.

unethical_ban 5y ago

Is there a United States senator in this thread compelling people to testify, and then ruining their careers and livelihoods over baseless claims?

boringg 5y ago

I don't think you actually know understand what happened in the Joseph McCarthy era but thanks for diluting the terrible nature of what Joseph McCarthy did by conflating it to my idle comment about the increased misinformation around China and US. Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary that I was referring to that seems to be spreading around the internet.

FpUser 5y ago
>"Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary" Lemme return a favor - your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like it is coming from an agent failing at the job and resorting to labelling anyone who disagrees with the party line as the agents of China. The original theme - do not do mass surveillance. It looks like we are doing same things as China. You can find this lacking of substance / lie and I respect that. But labeling bearer as China sympathizer is total bollocks. I am not.

boringg 5y ago

I do apologize I should have been specific in saying Peoples Republic of China to clarify that I meant the Government in control of China and not the people who live under their rule.