5 ms·

If a private company can buy the data why shouldn't the government be able to? The real solution is to not allow the data to be sold to anyone.

pfortuny 5y ago
Because the Government has a strictly limited power: it is subsidiary.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  There are plenty of things government can do that private industry does not have the ability to do. Making transactions (and even paying informants for information) are and should be within the power of the government.
VRay 5y ago
Private companies (theoretically/ideally) don't have the power of life and death over you
- baldeagle 5y ago
  Like literally, the amount of instances where the government is weighing life/death is very small, even smaller at the federal level (most death penalty cases are against state laws). If you're meaning in the 'government programs can greatly affect my quality of life', then private companies can totally do that too - through targeted advertising.
  - nescioquid 5y ago
    That the government has power over you at all is what matters, not how often it exercises that power against you. Already parallel case construction is a troubling problem (given the warrantless domestic surveillance). Grant the government access to surveillance capitalism / ad tech, and now you've got another vector to launder evidence.
  - sennight 5y ago
    Like literally, that is the basis for state power - several iterations of "...or else" finally end with "we kill you". Private companies don't enjoy that privilege - because they don't have the power to distinguish murder from justifiable homicide.
  - saintsmeeze 5y ago
    I'm not sure if this is satire/sarcasm. Are you comparing the power to imprison people with targeted advertising?
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  not to mention the power to imprison you.
- azemetre 5y ago
  But they do. Private companies have killed people with ill-made products [1], pollute our air and water [2], have purposely targeted people for harassment [3], and created drugs solely for addiction [4]. These examples only took 30 seconds of thought. The idea that businesses (whether public or private) can't hurt me or my family is absurd. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher-Price#Rock_'n_Play_recall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher-Price#Rock_'n_Play_reca... [2] https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-fracking-has-contaminated-drinking-water-a1256135490/ https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-frac... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family#Opioid_lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family#Opioid_lawsuits
- gred 5y ago
  More broadly, a monopoly on violence.
  - nybble41 5y ago
    Slightly less broadly, a monopoly on "legitimate" violence not limited to self-defense or a proportional, reciprocal response to prior violence. If the state actually managed to monopolize all violence that would be much better than what we have in practice, with plenty of non-state violence in addition to that instigated by the state, though calling any aggressive use of violence "legitimate" would remain a travesty.
- callmeal 5y ago
  >don't have the power of life and death over you Actually they do. See this for just one of the many ways they have that power: https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/12/21/teen-dies-hours-after-insurance-company-reverses-denial-of-liver-transplant-payment/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/12/21/teen-dies-hours-after...
nobody9999 5y ago
I'd go farther than that and say that such data shouldn't be collected in the first place.
- landemva 5y ago
  There is a solution - individually act in a way to limit what is collected. Take charge of the tracking devices you own, and of your spend. For extra credit, seed with bad data or misdirection. Statistically zero people make any effort, other than maybe saying the government should limit government data mining. Here is an idea, turn off mobile phone location tracking this weekend.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >Statistically zero people make any effort, other than maybe saying the government should limit government data mining. Here is an idea, turn off mobile phone location tracking this weekend. What, exactly, do you mean by "mobile phone location tracking"? Your phone provider needs to be able to locate your device to provide voice and data services. You'd need to remove your battery to disable that "phone location tracking." In which case, it's just a lump of glass and plastic. Which might make a good paperweight. As for "location services" and GPS, I never turn those on. As I said, the data shouldn't be collected -- at all. That's a regulatory issue, not a technical one.

pfortuny 5y ago

Because the Government has a strictly limited power: it is subsidiary.

whimsicalism 5y ago
There are plenty of things government can do that private industry does not have the ability to do. Making transactions (and even paying informants for information) are and should be within the power of the government.

VRay 5y ago

Private companies (theoretically/ideally) don't have the power of life and death over you

baldeagle 5y ago
Like literally, the amount of instances where the government is weighing life/death is very small, even smaller at the federal level (most death penalty cases are against state laws). If you're meaning in the 'government programs can greatly affect my quality of life', then private companies can totally do that too - through targeted advertising.
- nescioquid 5y ago
  That the government has power over you at all is what matters, not how often it exercises that power against you. Already parallel case construction is a troubling problem (given the warrantless domestic surveillance). Grant the government access to surveillance capitalism / ad tech, and now you've got another vector to launder evidence.
- sennight 5y ago
  Like literally, that is the basis for state power - several iterations of "...or else" finally end with "we kill you". Private companies don't enjoy that privilege - because they don't have the power to distinguish murder from justifiable homicide.
- saintsmeeze 5y ago
  I'm not sure if this is satire/sarcasm. Are you comparing the power to imprison people with targeted advertising?
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
not to mention the power to imprison you.
azemetre 5y ago
But they do. Private companies have killed people with ill-made products [1], pollute our air and water [2], have purposely targeted people for harassment [3], and created drugs solely for addiction [4]. These examples only took 30 seconds of thought. The idea that businesses (whether public or private) can't hurt me or my family is absurd. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher-Price#Rock_'n_Play_recall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher-Price#Rock_'n_Play_reca... [2] https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-fracking-has-contaminated-drinking-water-a1256135490/ https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-frac... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family#Opioid_lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family#Opioid_lawsuits
gred 5y ago
More broadly, a monopoly on violence.
- nybble41 5y ago
  Slightly less broadly, a monopoly on "legitimate" violence not limited to self-defense or a proportional, reciprocal response to prior violence. If the state actually managed to monopolize all violence that would be much better than what we have in practice, with plenty of non-state violence in addition to that instigated by the state, though calling any aggressive use of violence "legitimate" would remain a travesty.
callmeal 5y ago
>don't have the power of life and death over you Actually they do. See this for just one of the many ways they have that power: https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/12/21/teen-dies-hours-after-insurance-company-reverses-denial-of-liver-transplant-payment/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/12/21/teen-dies-hours-after...

nobody9999 5y ago

I'd go farther than that and say that such data shouldn't be collected in the first place.

landemva 5y ago
There is a solution - individually act in a way to limit what is collected. Take charge of the tracking devices you own, and of your spend. For extra credit, seed with bad data or misdirection. Statistically zero people make any effort, other than maybe saying the government should limit government data mining. Here is an idea, turn off mobile phone location tracking this weekend.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >Statistically zero people make any effort, other than maybe saying the government should limit government data mining. Here is an idea, turn off mobile phone location tracking this weekend. What, exactly, do you mean by "mobile phone location tracking"? Your phone provider needs to be able to locate your device to provide voice and data services. You'd need to remove your battery to disable that "phone location tracking." In which case, it's just a lump of glass and plastic. Which might make a good paperweight. As for "location services" and GPS, I never turn those on. As I said, the data shouldn't be collected -- at all. That's a regulatory issue, not a technical one.