6 ms·

On the topic of diploma - I get the sense this is not exactly true for FAANG

by twox2 5y ago

a_t48 5y ago
No diploma here - still have recruiters from at least 3 of the 5 messaging me. Edit: downvoters, care to explain a little? Why would they waste their time on me if they weren't interested in me working there?
- twox2 5y ago
  Do you / have you ever worked at one?
  - groby_b 5y ago
    Working at one for over a decade now. I've got no degree. Both people on my team and in adjacent team without degrees. Also many people with super-interesting degrees nothing to do with CS. So, yes, you can get hired at FAANG & friends without a CS degree. But: I would suggest to always read that as "absolutely go for it, even if you didn't get a degree", not "skip getting a degree, it doesn't make a difference".
  - tazjin 5y ago
    I used to work at Google/DeepMind and don't remember anyone even asking about it during the original interview process. (I did not go to uni)
  - pocket_cheese 5y ago
    I have worked for FAANG without a diploma. While it is rare, you can definitely do it if you grind enough leet code :D
  - a_t48 5y ago
    I've interviewed at Google twice - passed once, declined continuing the process due to not being super interested in the product. I've declined interviewing at Facebook/Amazon. I haven't talked with Netflix nor Apple. I have not worked for one, but have never gotten any indication that the lack of diploma would be a problem. I gather that a decade of professional experience makes the lack of diploma irrelevant. As best as I can tell the only time it has hurt me is when I tried to emigrate out of the US and was unable to as some countries require a degree to get a work visa, even with a job offer.
    - twox2 5y ago
      My anecdotal data is that I went really far in the process with a FAANG, got a verbal offer, and it was rescinded (never got the official offer). I always suspected it was due to lack of a degree. And no one explicitly ever asked, but they did ask for a rather detailed work/education history, and I never claimed to have one. I really suspect that they SAY they don't care if you have a degree or not, but at the end of the day I think they do.
      - a_t48 5y ago
        I would lean towards the position being filled by a better candidate or the team having a hiring freeze. Who can say, though? That's a large waste of everyone's time and the company's money.
        twox2 5y ago
        Perhaps! I can only speculate since I wasn't given any concrete feedback.
      - filoleg 5y ago
        >My anecdotal data is that I went really far in the process with a FAANG, got a verbal offer, and it was rescinded (never got the official offer). I always suspected it was due to lack of a degree. If your lack of degree was a dealbreaker, they wouldn't go with the interview process to completion. It makes zero sense to waste time and resources on a candidate that you already determined you aren't going to hire. My team had to interview 50+ people just to fill a couple of positions, and every interview is taking away from precious time that could have been spent working on the product. Wasting our time interviewing someone we won't hire due to a lack of degree makes no sense. Not only it would be wasting our own time, we would also be wasting the candidate's time, and all of it for exactly zero gain. There is no grand conspiracy where FAANG companies interview candidates with no degrees all the way till the end, and then drop them due to the lack of degree, it is just illogical all around. Basically, if you got an interview, and especially if you got to the onsite rounds, nothing that is on your resume can disqualify you at this point.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    I am working at one now (kind of, since MSFT doesn't really make it into the abbreviation), and one of the brightest senior engineers on my team had no degree whatsoever, just a high-school diploma (using past tense, because he left for another company a couple of years ago). I also have a bunch of friends who currently work Google (some from college, some former colleagues) and a few at FB, and all of them know at least one coworker without a college degree. And when our team was recruiting experienced candidates (5-10 years or more), at no point we ever cared about their degree or lack thereof (aside from some specialized research positions that typically require graduate degrees). For entry level though, yeah, if you are in your early 20s without much industry experience, it is gonna be much tougher to get hired without a degree.
    - lazyasciiart 5y ago
      It's getting harder. I have a friend who worked at MSFT out of high school >10 years ago, and was told several years in that he could never be promoted beyond his current level without a degree. Decided to take a couple years off to get a degree in something random (theology) and when he applied for his old job, now +BA, was told he needed a CS degree to be qualified for it.
      - filoleg 5y ago
        Was your friend in engineering? And what kind of level was your friend shooting for? Because yeah, if you are shooting for a director or a partner level position, you better have a degree. But for a regular senior engineer position? Not at all. Also, i don't know when your friend tried to get re-hired and at which level. The whole "we don't care as much about degrees anymore" is a fairly recent thing, I would say 5 or so years. And of course, if your friend only worked at MSFT for a few years, then left to do school, and then tried to come back, they would be probably still shooting for a close-to-entry level position, not a senior. And entry-level without a degree or something else to compensate for it is going to be really tough. Normally it is compensated by either years of experience or something else (side projects, major open-source contribs, etc.), hence why I never saw someone without a degree at entry-level, but plenty who are senior engineers.
saratogacx 5y ago
I've worked at both Amazon and Microsoft. I'm not even an HS graduate. I worked my way in through contract gigs until I was able to get an FTE role. After the first one, moving to another place was no big deal. I was asked about it by HR only to make sure their records were correct and never heard of it again.
- moneywoes 5y ago
  Any tips on getting the first one? How was your algorithms prep?

On the topic of diploma - I get the sense this is not exactly true for FAANG

by twox2 5y ago

On the topic of diploma - I get the sense this is not exactly true for FAANG

No diploma here - still have recruiters from at least 3 of the 5 messaging me. Edit: downvoters, care to explain a little? Why would they waste their time on me if they weren't interested in me working there?

twox2 5y ago
Do you / have you ever worked at one?
- groby_b 5y ago
  Working at one for over a decade now. I've got no degree. Both people on my team and in adjacent team without degrees. Also many people with super-interesting degrees nothing to do with CS. So, yes, you can get hired at FAANG & friends without a CS degree. But: I would suggest to always read that as "absolutely go for it, even if you didn't get a degree", not "skip getting a degree, it doesn't make a difference".
- tazjin 5y ago
  I used to work at Google/DeepMind and don't remember anyone even asking about it during the original interview process. (I did not go to uni)
- pocket_cheese 5y ago
  I have worked for FAANG without a diploma. While it is rare, you can definitely do it if you grind enough leet code :D
- a_t48 5y ago
  I've interviewed at Google twice - passed once, declined continuing the process due to not being super interested in the product. I've declined interviewing at Facebook/Amazon. I haven't talked with Netflix nor Apple. I have not worked for one, but have never gotten any indication that the lack of diploma would be a problem. I gather that a decade of professional experience makes the lack of diploma irrelevant. As best as I can tell the only time it has hurt me is when I tried to emigrate out of the US and was unable to as some countries require a degree to get a work visa, even with a job offer.
  - twox2 5y ago
    My anecdotal data is that I went really far in the process with a FAANG, got a verbal offer, and it was rescinded (never got the official offer). I always suspected it was due to lack of a degree. And no one explicitly ever asked, but they did ask for a rather detailed work/education history, and I never claimed to have one. I really suspect that they SAY they don't care if you have a degree or not, but at the end of the day I think they do.
    - a_t48 5y ago
      I would lean towards the position being filled by a better candidate or the team having a hiring freeze. Who can say, though? That's a large waste of everyone's time and the company's money.
      - twox2 5y ago
        Perhaps! I can only speculate since I wasn't given any concrete feedback.
    - filoleg 5y ago
      >My anecdotal data is that I went really far in the process with a FAANG, got a verbal offer, and it was rescinded (never got the official offer). I always suspected it was due to lack of a degree. If your lack of degree was a dealbreaker, they wouldn't go with the interview process to completion. It makes zero sense to waste time and resources on a candidate that you already determined you aren't going to hire. My team had to interview 50+ people just to fill a couple of positions, and every interview is taking away from precious time that could have been spent working on the product. Wasting our time interviewing someone we won't hire due to a lack of degree makes no sense. Not only it would be wasting our own time, we would also be wasting the candidate's time, and all of it for exactly zero gain. There is no grand conspiracy where FAANG companies interview candidates with no degrees all the way till the end, and then drop them due to the lack of degree, it is just illogical all around. Basically, if you got an interview, and especially if you got to the onsite rounds, nothing that is on your resume can disqualify you at this point.
- filoleg 5y ago
  I am working at one now (kind of, since MSFT doesn't really make it into the abbreviation), and one of the brightest senior engineers on my team had no degree whatsoever, just a high-school diploma (using past tense, because he left for another company a couple of years ago). I also have a bunch of friends who currently work Google (some from college, some former colleagues) and a few at FB, and all of them know at least one coworker without a college degree. And when our team was recruiting experienced candidates (5-10 years or more), at no point we ever cared about their degree or lack thereof (aside from some specialized research positions that typically require graduate degrees). For entry level though, yeah, if you are in your early 20s without much industry experience, it is gonna be much tougher to get hired without a degree.
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    It's getting harder. I have a friend who worked at MSFT out of high school >10 years ago, and was told several years in that he could never be promoted beyond his current level without a degree. Decided to take a couple years off to get a degree in something random (theology) and when he applied for his old job, now +BA, was told he needed a CS degree to be qualified for it.
    - filoleg 5y ago
      Was your friend in engineering? And what kind of level was your friend shooting for? Because yeah, if you are shooting for a director or a partner level position, you better have a degree. But for a regular senior engineer position? Not at all. Also, i don't know when your friend tried to get re-hired and at which level. The whole "we don't care as much about degrees anymore" is a fairly recent thing, I would say 5 or so years. And of course, if your friend only worked at MSFT for a few years, then left to do school, and then tried to come back, they would be probably still shooting for a close-to-entry level position, not a senior. And entry-level without a degree or something else to compensate for it is going to be really tough. Normally it is compensated by either years of experience or something else (side projects, major open-source contribs, etc.), hence why I never saw someone without a degree at entry-level, but plenty who are senior engineers.

saratogacx 5y ago

I've worked at both Amazon and Microsoft. I'm not even an HS graduate. I worked my way in through contract gigs until I was able to get an FTE role. After the first one, moving to another place was no big deal. I was asked about it by HR only to make sure their records were correct and never heard of it again.

moneywoes 5y ago
Any tips on getting the first one? How was your algorithms prep?