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I see that often we tax the rich in order to pass their money along to lobbyists who take that money and use it for projects that exacerbate the climate crisis.

I see that often we tax the rich in order to pass their money along to lobbyists who take that money and use it for projects that exacerbate the climate crisis. In California, a lot of tax dollars go to dirty energy. Think of Newsom’s ties with PG&E and big oil. It’s a lot like money laundering and muddies what could and should be a fairly simple discussion about how we get our energy. Another example is Biden pushing opec and other nations to pump more oil. Or when he says he is pro-fracking to one group and says he is anti-fracking to another group a few days later. As long as the public votes for more of this, I think our hope must reside outside the political industrial complex. It’s more likely that someone like Musk will solve big problems than the government would using his money. Look at spacex.

kennywinker 5y ago
> Look at spacex. You mean the defense contractor? Ah yes, taking gov money to build bombs is definitely going to save us from... idk what? https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocket-contract-deliver-weapons/ https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocke... What big problem has ever been solved by a billionaire's "philanthropy"? Government is dysfunctional, but the solution is NOT and never will be billionaires - I for one would prefer not to become a serf - the solution is functional government.
- newbamboo 5y ago
  “Government is dysfunctional” We agree on that then. I’m inclined to think that giving them more money will not make them more functional. It will do the opposite. If a private company gives you worse service do you pay them more? In economics I believe they call that a perverse incentive. Paying them proportional to their failure is the proverbial “throwing good money after bad.” Pretending there’s no such thing as “competition” or “incentives” is not merely ignorance of basic economics, it’s disastrous in a democracy that depends on rational voting.
  - kennywinker 5y ago
    > giving them more money will not make them more functional. True, but I disagree with the idea that it'll make them _less_ functional. Relying on billionaires to fix the problem give them more social capital and takes the focus away from fixing government, not to mention one of the things billionaires often do with their money is spend it on undermining the functionality of government (see: Koch brothers).
notJim 5y ago
Government policy and major aspects of the economy are inexorably linked. It doesn't make sense to consider them separately. And I think the structure of production is quite a separate question than billionaires' personal wealth. Take EV adoption for example—the most successful countries are those with major subsidies for EVs and major regulations on pollution from cars. This simultaneously requires tax money and enriches some billionaires, like Elon Musk.

kennywinker 5y ago

> Look at spacex. You mean the defense contractor? Ah yes, taking gov money to build bombs is definitely going to save us from... idk what? https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocket-contract-deliver-weapons/ https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocke... What big problem has ever been solved by a billionaire's "philanthropy"? Government is dysfunctional, but the solution is NOT and never will be billionaires - I for one would prefer not to become a serf - the solution is functional government.

newbamboo 5y ago
“Government is dysfunctional” We agree on that then. I’m inclined to think that giving them more money will not make them more functional. It will do the opposite. If a private company gives you worse service do you pay them more? In economics I believe they call that a perverse incentive. Paying them proportional to their failure is the proverbial “throwing good money after bad.” Pretending there’s no such thing as “competition” or “incentives” is not merely ignorance of basic economics, it’s disastrous in a democracy that depends on rational voting.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  > giving them more money will not make them more functional. True, but I disagree with the idea that it'll make them _less_ functional. Relying on billionaires to fix the problem give them more social capital and takes the focus away from fixing government, not to mention one of the things billionaires often do with their money is spend it on undermining the functionality of government (see: Koch brothers).

notJim 5y ago

Government policy and major aspects of the economy are inexorably linked. It doesn't make sense to consider them separately. And I think the structure of production is quite a separate question than billionaires' personal wealth. Take EV adoption for example—the most successful countries are those with major subsidies for EVs and major regulations on pollution from cars. This simultaneously requires tax money and enriches some billionaires, like Elon Musk.