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> John Deere employees now hold all the cards, if they stop working people will literally starve without tractors to do the harvest or, you know, maybe John De

> John Deere employees now hold all the cards, if they stop working people will literally starve without tractors to do the harvest or, you know, maybe John Deere owners/execs have the power? maybe if they paid their employees a living wage employees wouldn't need to go on strike?

speeder 5y ago
What I mean is: if they DIDN'T had DRM they could ignore the strike more easily, but they DRM made sure a lot of people will have serious issues if they don't raise wages, thus the DRM shifted power from execs hands to the employees.
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
I am curious if they are actually getting less than a living wage. Quick googling suggests that they were making $20-$30 per hour before the strike. Another quick Google suggests that the average assembly line hourly rate is $19/hr (another source says only $14/hr). It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability, but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. Is that pretty much the situation or did I miss something?
- beckman466 5y ago
  > It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability i appreciate the data, though 1.) this is America - so workers have to deal with a lack of basic social services like in Europe, 2.) from my understanding the concessions made by John Deere were pitiful so far. an account from someone on the ground: https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 > but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. yes exactly, that's the superior argument here. although the best argument is the one about climate change, and how viable solutions are not profitable enough to capitalism in the short term. we need open source, modular tech like the Science for the People article argues. "The current political economy is based on a false idea of “immaterial scarcity.” It believes that an exaggerated set of intellectual property monopolies – for [trade secrets], copyrights, trademarks and patents – should restrain the sharing of scientific, social and economic innovations. Hence the system discourages human cooperation, excludes many people from benefiting from innovation and slows the collective learning of humanity. In an age of grave global challenges, the political economy keeps many practical alternatives sequestered behind private firewalls or unfunded if they cannot generate adequate profits." http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-new-civilization-centered-around-sustenance-commons http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-ne...
- DavidPeiffer 5y ago
  I live near one of their facilities on strike, though don't know any direct John Deere employees closely. From discussions I've read, a major component of the frustration is forced overtime. I imagine John Deere probably ran similar to a company I used to work for. The order book was full, there was money to be made. 9-10 hour days Monday-Friday. Most Saturdays was mandatory overtime. The only way to guarantee you can do something over the weekend with your family is by taking PTO on Friday, which would get you out of overtime on Saturday. Pair in that the last couple negotiations have been during downturns in farming, it's pretty reasonable that they're trying to make up ground after taking concessionary contracts.
- throwaway55421 5y ago
  "Living wage" is essentially complete bollocks. It has no well defined meaning, that is to say - it has no meaning with anything approaching large scale agreement. A living wage to a migrant might have been one that allows them a bed in an 8-bunk dorm, a bus ticket, and thirty quid a week for food. A living wage to most of HN is probably enough to get a mortgage. To me the concept is essentially nonsensical - if you're in the proletarian class then you're not living at all.
lukifer 5y ago
Not that I don't favor a universal living wage, but price discovery for labor lives along a separate axis; the ability to withhold value (or the credible deterrent of doing so) is a bargaining chip that can be used in negotiation. This is true of every firm, be it an overseas sweatshop, an Amazon warehouse, or high-paid engineers in a tech giant. Even if every John Deere employee made 3x of a "living wage" (relative to local costs), they'd still have every right to collectively bargain by withholding labor (to say nothing of non-monetary demands: autonomy, safety standards, flexible scheduling, etc).

speeder 5y ago

What I mean is: if they DIDN'T had DRM they could ignore the strike more easily, but they DRM made sure a lot of people will have serious issues if they don't raise wages, thus the DRM shifted power from execs hands to the employees.

BenjiWiebe 5y ago

I am curious if they are actually getting less than a living wage. Quick googling suggests that they were making $20-$30 per hour before the strike. Another quick Google suggests that the average assembly line hourly rate is $19/hr (another source says only $14/hr). It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability, but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. Is that pretty much the situation or did I miss something?

beckman466 5y ago
> It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability i appreciate the data, though 1.) this is America - so workers have to deal with a lack of basic social services like in Europe, 2.) from my understanding the concessions made by John Deere were pitiful so far. an account from someone on the ground: https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 > but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. yes exactly, that's the superior argument here. although the best argument is the one about climate change, and how viable solutions are not profitable enough to capitalism in the short term. we need open source, modular tech like the Science for the People article argues. "The current political economy is based on a false idea of “immaterial scarcity.” It believes that an exaggerated set of intellectual property monopolies – for [trade secrets], copyrights, trademarks and patents – should restrain the sharing of scientific, social and economic innovations. Hence the system discourages human cooperation, excludes many people from benefiting from innovation and slows the collective learning of humanity. In an age of grave global challenges, the political economy keeps many practical alternatives sequestered behind private firewalls or unfunded if they cannot generate adequate profits." http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-new-civilization-centered-around-sustenance-commons http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-ne...
DavidPeiffer 5y ago
I live near one of their facilities on strike, though don't know any direct John Deere employees closely. From discussions I've read, a major component of the frustration is forced overtime. I imagine John Deere probably ran similar to a company I used to work for. The order book was full, there was money to be made. 9-10 hour days Monday-Friday. Most Saturdays was mandatory overtime. The only way to guarantee you can do something over the weekend with your family is by taking PTO on Friday, which would get you out of overtime on Saturday. Pair in that the last couple negotiations have been during downturns in farming, it's pretty reasonable that they're trying to make up ground after taking concessionary contracts.
throwaway55421 5y ago
"Living wage" is essentially complete bollocks. It has no well defined meaning, that is to say - it has no meaning with anything approaching large scale agreement. A living wage to a migrant might have been one that allows them a bed in an 8-bunk dorm, a bus ticket, and thirty quid a week for food. A living wage to most of HN is probably enough to get a mortgage. To me the concept is essentially nonsensical - if you're in the proletarian class then you're not living at all.

lukifer 5y ago

Not that I don't favor a universal living wage, but price discovery for labor lives along a separate axis; the ability to withhold value (or the credible deterrent of doing so) is a bargaining chip that can be used in negotiation. This is true of every firm, be it an overseas sweatshop, an Amazon warehouse, or high-paid engineers in a tech giant. Even if every John Deere employee made 3x of a "living wage" (relative to local costs), they'd still have every right to collectively bargain by withholding labor (to say nothing of non-monetary demands: autonomy, safety standards, flexible scheduling, etc).