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> I'm heartily sick and tired of the way white South African men are portrayed as the 'new bogeymen'. New boogeyman? The malign influence of whites in Africa i

> I'm heartily sick and tired of the way white South African men are portrayed as the 'new bogeymen'. New boogeyman? The malign influence of whites in Africa is not a new phenomenon. The statement you took issue with is true. Of course, nobody reasonable would suggest that all whites in Africa, or that all white South Africans, are bad people, but it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa on the basis that it hurts white people in Africa's feelings.

nuerow 5y ago
> (...) but it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa You really have to figure out what you're referring to as "white people", not only because of the inherent racism in your statement but also because it fails to recognize the root cause of the colonialism problem throughout the world, including Africa. For example, do you feel it's appropriate to blame race when colonialist powers were forcing "white people" into exile to their colonies under the penalty of death? How about "white people" taking job offers to work on any industry located in said colonies and consequently ended up making their home there? Are you to blame for a problem just because you find yourself somewhere and you happen to be the wrong race? Colonialism were the result of oppressive policies driven by authoritarian regimes, but these processes weren't driven bottom-up.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > For example, do you feel it's appropriate to blame race Where did I "blame" race? And for what? People who are white have done horrible things in Africa. People who are black have done horrible things in Africa. It is, however, a simple fact that the people who are white came to Africa from other places. Looking at the history, I don't think it's difficult to make a strong argument that, on the whole, the arrival of white Europeans on the continent has hurt the (black) people who were already there more than it has helped them. That's not blaming white people for all that ails Africa. It's also not disingenuously dismissing the malign influence white Europeans have had on the continent. Again, let's look at the statement the OP took issue with and suggested was racist: > Men like Denard but perhaps a little less theatrical—many of them South Africans—took the next logical step. They founded businesses with boring-sounding names but a deadly purpose: to fight Africa’s nastiest conflicts on behalf of corrupt, inept governments, and for profit Where's the racism in this? Is this not true?
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > Where did I "blame" race? And for what? Please don't play dumb. You accused, and I quote, "it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa on the basis that it hurts white people in Africa's feelings." > People who are white have done horrible things in Africa. Please don't play dumb. You know very well your racist comment was a blanked accusation targeted at entire ethnical groups. If you are honestly interested in learning about the crimes against humanity committed within the scope of imperialist agendas, you'll learn very well that the root cause is very specific. If on the other hand you're just invested in mindlessly spewing racist comments then you should really take a look at what you are doing.
    - dang 5y ago
      You've been breaking the site guidelines so badly and so frequently—not just in this hellish flamewar, but elsewhere too, and quite egregiously—that I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      > Please don't play dumb. You accused, and I quote, "it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa on the basis that it hurts white people in Africa's feelings." That statement itself isn't "blaming" white people for anything. It's merely stating that it is not reasonable to avoid not-so-pretty aspects of the history of white Europeans in Africa on the basis that some white people in Africa (and Europe) don't want to discuss them. > You know very well your racist comment was a blanked accusation targeted at entire ethnical groups. What is the accusation? You conveniently left out the next sentence: > People who are black have done horrible things in Africa. As I stated, you can't blame white people for all that ails Africa. But it's also disingenuous to dismiss the malign influence white Europeans have had on the continent. To pretend that racism wasn't a fundamental part of the belief systems of white European imperialists is simply absurd. White European imperialists believed themselves superior to the people in the lands they conquered, and they engaged in concerted efforts to convince the people they oppressed of their inferiority to the white Europeans as well. Are you totally ignorant of the widely-promoted and widely-held notion that Africans were barbarians incapable of governing themselves and were better off as slaves?[1] Cecil Rhodes (know who he is?) himself wrote: > I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. Just fancy those parts that are at present inhabited by the most despicable specimens of human beings what an alteration there would be if they were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence, look again at the extra employment a new country added to our dominions gives. Now, I'm not suggesting that we "cancel" the Rhodes Scholarship, but would you find it racist to talk about the fact that Cecil Rhodes was a racist? Also, I think you meant "ethnic" groups, not "ethnical" groups. > If you are honestly interested in learning about the crimes against humanity committed within the scope of imperialist agendas, you'll learn very well that the root cause is very specific. It seems to me you're preferring to talk about "imperialist agendas" without talking about who the imperialists were. Pray tell, who were the imperialists? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/european-racism-africa-slavery https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/europe...

nuerow 5y ago

> (...) but it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa You really have to figure out what you're referring to as "white people", not only because of the inherent racism in your statement but also because it fails to recognize the root cause of the colonialism problem throughout the world, including Africa. For example, do you feel it's appropriate to blame race when colonialist powers were forcing "white people" into exile to their colonies under the penalty of death? How about "white people" taking job offers to work on any industry located in said colonies and consequently ended up making their home there? Are you to blame for a problem just because you find yourself somewhere and you happen to be the wrong race? Colonialism were the result of oppressive policies driven by authoritarian regimes, but these processes weren't driven bottom-up.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> For example, do you feel it's appropriate to blame race Where did I "blame" race? And for what? People who are white have done horrible things in Africa. People who are black have done horrible things in Africa. It is, however, a simple fact that the people who are white came to Africa from other places. Looking at the history, I don't think it's difficult to make a strong argument that, on the whole, the arrival of white Europeans on the continent has hurt the (black) people who were already there more than it has helped them. That's not blaming white people for all that ails Africa. It's also not disingenuously dismissing the malign influence white Europeans have had on the continent. Again, let's look at the statement the OP took issue with and suggested was racist: > Men like Denard but perhaps a little less theatrical—many of them South Africans—took the next logical step. They founded businesses with boring-sounding names but a deadly purpose: to fight Africa’s nastiest conflicts on behalf of corrupt, inept governments, and for profit Where's the racism in this? Is this not true?
- nuerow 5y ago
  > Where did I "blame" race? And for what? Please don't play dumb. You accused, and I quote, "it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa on the basis that it hurts white people in Africa's feelings." > People who are white have done horrible things in Africa. Please don't play dumb. You know very well your racist comment was a blanked accusation targeted at entire ethnical groups. If you are honestly interested in learning about the crimes against humanity committed within the scope of imperialist agendas, you'll learn very well that the root cause is very specific. If on the other hand you're just invested in mindlessly spewing racist comments then you should really take a look at what you are doing.
  - dang 5y ago
    You've been breaking the site guidelines so badly and so frequently—not just in this hellish flamewar, but elsewhere too, and quite egregiously—that I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    > Please don't play dumb. You accused, and I quote, "it's disingenuous to dismiss historical facts about what white people have done in Africa on the basis that it hurts white people in Africa's feelings." That statement itself isn't "blaming" white people for anything. It's merely stating that it is not reasonable to avoid not-so-pretty aspects of the history of white Europeans in Africa on the basis that some white people in Africa (and Europe) don't want to discuss them. > You know very well your racist comment was a blanked accusation targeted at entire ethnical groups. What is the accusation? You conveniently left out the next sentence: > People who are black have done horrible things in Africa. As I stated, you can't blame white people for all that ails Africa. But it's also disingenuous to dismiss the malign influence white Europeans have had on the continent. To pretend that racism wasn't a fundamental part of the belief systems of white European imperialists is simply absurd. White European imperialists believed themselves superior to the people in the lands they conquered, and they engaged in concerted efforts to convince the people they oppressed of their inferiority to the white Europeans as well. Are you totally ignorant of the widely-promoted and widely-held notion that Africans were barbarians incapable of governing themselves and were better off as slaves?[1] Cecil Rhodes (know who he is?) himself wrote: > I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. Just fancy those parts that are at present inhabited by the most despicable specimens of human beings what an alteration there would be if they were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence, look again at the extra employment a new country added to our dominions gives. Now, I'm not suggesting that we "cancel" the Rhodes Scholarship, but would you find it racist to talk about the fact that Cecil Rhodes was a racist? Also, I think you meant "ethnic" groups, not "ethnical" groups. > If you are honestly interested in learning about the crimes against humanity committed within the scope of imperialist agendas, you'll learn very well that the root cause is very specific. It seems to me you're preferring to talk about "imperialist agendas" without talking about who the imperialists were. Pray tell, who were the imperialists? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/european-racism-africa-slavery https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/europe...