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> his thinking is more nuanced than those shitting on it To be fair, an architect with 15 years on the UCSB Review Committee resigned over this... so it's not

> his thinking is more nuanced than those shitting on it To be fair, an architect with 15 years on the UCSB Review Committee resigned over this... so it's not just outsiders and the media who are bagging on the design. https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-protest-over-ucsb-mega-dorm/ https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-...

csdvrx 5y ago
That's a call to authority. Sometimes, we are stuck in a local optimum, and a new redesign is needed, which involves some tough calls and unusual solutions. As for a bedroom without windows, when I sleep I like that my bedroom is dark. When I don't sleep, I'm not in my bed or my bedroom. So I'm not exactly sure what people complain about his design.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  > That's a call to authority My comment was responding to a call for authority. I’m not using their position for anything more than to say that they’re informed. > When I don't sleep, I'm not in my bed or my bedroom. I’m similar now but I was in my room a lot when I was in uni. There were also plenty of kids on my hall who were in their rooms at basically all times, leaving only for class and food.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > There were also plenty of kids on my hall who were in their rooms at basically all times, leaving only for class and food. If I may venture a guess, it may have been caused by the lack of better alternatives. Reducing the sleeping room to its core feature (sleeping!) may give more space to build rooms for other important features, while disincentivizing staying in one room at basically all times (which I see as generally a bad idea)
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Expertise is authority with foundation.
oh_sigh 5y ago
Architects for his other buildings didn't resign though. Why do you trust this one specifically over the other ones who followed through creating the buildings?
- tgb 5y ago
  Surely the architect working on this building is the one to listen to about this building.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    That would only make sense if architects had an impeccable record of creating truly livable buildings. Which they don't.
- rtkwe 5y ago
  His other buildings weren't so wildly divergent from the consensus about good building design either. The closest seems to be his University of Michigan graduate housing. In the building he does have windowless dorm rooms (often complained about) but there's only 7 of them off a shared kitchen and living room space instead of 70+. He took the design of Munger Hall and scaled it up almost directly with some rearranging and scaling, each room on the somewhat successful [0] UM Munger Dorm becomes a new pod of smaller rooms. The designs are so different the relative success of the UM dorm shouldn't transfer much credibility to the design of the UCSB dorm. Going from sharing a lit common space with 7 people to 70 people is a massive change in the dynamics of those spaces. At a very basic level the UM space is owned and controlled by few enough people you can call it semi-private. At the UCSB level it's just a full public space which is a different dynamic. https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2021/11/03/heres-what-its-like-to-live-in-one-of-charlie-mungers-windowless-dorms/ https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2021/11/03/heres-what-its-like-... https://i.redd.it/81yfb7wkxby51.jpg https://i.redd.it/81yfb7wkxby51.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2021/11/munger-hall-university-of-california-santa-barbara-floor-plan_dezeen_2364_col_0-852x613.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2021/11/munger-hall-univer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU [0] I say somewhat because people hate the windowless individual rooms it has enough amenities that they still rate it highly. He's fully banking on the fake windows making the new smaller rooms palatable. While massively increasing the number of people you have to share your nearest source of natural light with. edit: even that conclusion isn't universal some people had a pretty bad time living in those dorms https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...
xyzelement 5y ago
Yup. For what it's worth I couldn't find any examples of that architect's work to compare with. And I would also say if you are a professional who got cut out of the process, you are gonna be pissed off no matter what. not to say this architect is bad/wrong, just that he doesn't exactly have any incentive to celebrate this.
forgingahead 5y ago
Munger Hall at Stanford is actually pretty nice - I was stunned by how nice the apartments were actually. However if I remember correctly they are totally opposite in concept to the UCSB proposed dorm - Stanford ones have two rooms to an apartment, a decent living area between the two rooms, not much of a big building common area, and definitely windows in each apartment. So yes, I agree that the UCSB dorm design sounds terrible in comparison.

csdvrx 5y ago

That's a call to authority. Sometimes, we are stuck in a local optimum, and a new redesign is needed, which involves some tough calls and unusual solutions. As for a bedroom without windows, when I sleep I like that my bedroom is dark. When I don't sleep, I'm not in my bed or my bedroom. So I'm not exactly sure what people complain about his design.

lelandfe 5y ago
> That's a call to authority My comment was responding to a call for authority. I’m not using their position for anything more than to say that they’re informed. > When I don't sleep, I'm not in my bed or my bedroom. I’m similar now but I was in my room a lot when I was in uni. There were also plenty of kids on my hall who were in their rooms at basically all times, leaving only for class and food.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > There were also plenty of kids on my hall who were in their rooms at basically all times, leaving only for class and food. If I may venture a guess, it may have been caused by the lack of better alternatives. Reducing the sleeping room to its core feature (sleeping!) may give more space to build rooms for other important features, while disincentivizing staying in one room at basically all times (which I see as generally a bad idea)
dredmorbius 5y ago
Expertise is authority with foundation.

oh_sigh 5y ago

Architects for his other buildings didn't resign though. Why do you trust this one specifically over the other ones who followed through creating the buildings?

tgb 5y ago
Surely the architect working on this building is the one to listen to about this building.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  That would only make sense if architects had an impeccable record of creating truly livable buildings. Which they don't.
rtkwe 5y ago
His other buildings weren't so wildly divergent from the consensus about good building design either. The closest seems to be his University of Michigan graduate housing. In the building he does have windowless dorm rooms (often complained about) but there's only 7 of them off a shared kitchen and living room space instead of 70+. He took the design of Munger Hall and scaled it up almost directly with some rearranging and scaling, each room on the somewhat successful [0] UM Munger Dorm becomes a new pod of smaller rooms. The designs are so different the relative success of the UM dorm shouldn't transfer much credibility to the design of the UCSB dorm. Going from sharing a lit common space with 7 people to 70 people is a massive change in the dynamics of those spaces. At a very basic level the UM space is owned and controlled by few enough people you can call it semi-private. At the UCSB level it's just a full public space which is a different dynamic. https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2021/11/03/heres-what-its-like-to-live-in-one-of-charlie-mungers-windowless-dorms/ https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2021/11/03/heres-what-its-like-... https://i.redd.it/81yfb7wkxby51.jpg https://i.redd.it/81yfb7wkxby51.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2021/11/munger-hall-university-of-california-santa-barbara-floor-plan_dezeen_2364_col_0-852x613.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2021/11/munger-hall-univer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU [0] I say somewhat because people hate the windowless individual rooms it has enough amenities that they still rate it highly. He's fully banking on the fake windows making the new smaller rooms palatable. While massively increasing the number of people you have to share your nearest source of natural light with. edit: even that conclusion isn't universal some people had a pretty bad time living in those dorms https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...

xyzelement 5y ago

Yup. For what it's worth I couldn't find any examples of that architect's work to compare with. And I would also say if you are a professional who got cut out of the process, you are gonna be pissed off no matter what. not to say this architect is bad/wrong, just that he doesn't exactly have any incentive to celebrate this.

forgingahead 5y ago

Munger Hall at Stanford is actually pretty nice - I was stunned by how nice the apartments were actually. However if I remember correctly they are totally opposite in concept to the UCSB proposed dorm - Stanford ones have two rooms to an apartment, a decent living area between the two rooms, not much of a big building common area, and definitely windows in each apartment. So yes, I agree that the UCSB dorm design sounds terrible in comparison.