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- mcguire 5y ago"A community that sees no value to repair is a community that cannot..." ...be resilient in the face of unpleasant events. Past a certain point, optimization is the enemy of resilience, and for optimization for the producer's profit, that point is not very far along. This is corollary to the fundamental dictum, "Life is hard. Life is harder if you are stupid."
- djoldman 5y agoRegarding John Deere tractors: does anyone have insight as to why a competitor with more lenient repair rules hasn't shown up to save all the farmers?
- COGlory 5y agoProbably because most farm equipment is a multi generational purchase
- quickthrowman 5y agoI would wager that most farm equipment is sold to large corporate farms, they just want the machines to work and don’t mind paying Deere to fix them.
- mcguire 5y agoA new company? Two words: capital intensity. Production of industrial machinery like farm equipment requires massive factory infrastructure with significant supply chains. Getting the capital together for that is hard enough, but then the new company would be competing against the established John Deere, with the added (perceived, if nothing else) handicap of lenient repair rules. An existing competitor to John Deere? I suspect it is for the same reason that sedans are essentially indistinguishable, style-wise: operating in the same environment (aerodynamics, interior volume and shape, etc. on one hand, the legal and cultural background on the other), they have all struck on the same optimizations, which include repair restrictions. Now, if one does decide to try the alternative, and makes significantly more profit, you'll see a fairly rapid state change as most of them switch.
- dredmorbius 5y agoCapital. Supply chain (inputs). Distribution chain (sales). Familiarity (brand awareness). Interoperability (ancillary equipment, PTO connections, fittings, etc.) Market position and power takes time to be established. It takes time to shift. Even under extreme negative pressure (that is, "loyalty" is due far more to lack of alternatives than genuine delight or satisfaction) collapse can be a long time coming. And that's before anticompetitive pressures are brought to bear (e.g., exclusive contracts or threats of retaliation against any of the above).
- stonemetal12 5y agoThere are easy to repair competitors like kubota. It is just JD still has a lot of name recognition and "Buy American" and all that.
- pchristensen 5y agoI don't remember the details, but this podcast goes into pretty significant depth - https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/business-breakdowns/john-deere-centuries-of-k2lbO3V-ZHi/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/business-breakdowns/joh... Lots of moats - financial, reputational, generational, technological, branding, performance, distribution, etc.
- masswerk 5y agoWhat about a mandatory publication of repair & maintenance manuals, starting at a certain amount of goods delivered? This may at least heighten awareness, even to the point of becoming a quality indicator again.
- nicbou 5y agoThe environmental impact would be counterproductive. I'd be happy if the repair manuals that already exist were open and accessible. It blows my mind that I can't legally obtain the repair manuals for my vehicles.
- speeder 5y agoHeh, I saw this AFTER I posted this link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29164111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29164111 Basically John Deere made their tractors impossible to repair without official parts, and we have now a harvest season + inflation, thus John Deere employees now hold all the cards, if they stop working people will literally starve without tractors to do the harvest, since repairing the tractors without their help is now impossible, thus they are strinking.
- beckman466 5y ago> John Deere employees now hold all the cards, if they stop working people will literally starve without tractors to do the harvest or, you know, maybe John Deere owners/execs have the power? maybe if they paid their employees a living wage employees wouldn't need to go on strike?
- speeder 5y agoWhat I mean is: if they DIDN'T had DRM they could ignore the strike more easily, but they DRM made sure a lot of people will have serious issues if they don't raise wages, thus the DRM shifted power from execs hands to the employees.
- BenjiWiebe 5y agoI am curious if they are actually getting less than a living wage. Quick googling suggests that they were making $20-$30 per hour before the strike. Another quick Google suggests that the average assembly line hourly rate is $19/hr (another source says only $14/hr). It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability, but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. Is that pretty much the situation or did I miss something?
- beckman466 5y ago> It looks like the wages aren't out of line as far as livability i appreciate the data, though 1.) this is America - so workers have to deal with a lack of basic social services like in Europe, 2.) from my understanding the concessions made by John Deere were pitiful so far. an account from someone on the ground: https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 https://twitter.com/JonahFurman/status/1456457606583758871 > but it is understandably infuriating to see the company as a whole making tremendous profits while only paying slightly above average. yes exactly, that's the superior argument here. although the best argument is the one about climate change, and how viable solutions are not profitable enough to capitalism in the short term. we need open source, modular tech like the Science for the People article argues. "The current political economy is based on a false idea of “immaterial scarcity.” It believes that an exaggerated set of intellectual property monopolies – for [trade secrets], copyrights, trademarks and patents – should restrain the sharing of scientific, social and economic innovations. Hence the system discourages human cooperation, excludes many people from benefiting from innovation and slows the collective learning of humanity. In an age of grave global challenges, the political economy keeps many practical alternatives sequestered behind private firewalls or unfunded if they cannot generate adequate profits." http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-new-civilization-centered-around-sustenance-commons http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/peer-peer-economy-and-ne...
- LeifCarrotson 5y agoFor anyone else unfamiliar with the terms, the Global North/Global South are monikers used to describe the socioeconomic divides between countries. The North is European/American economies plus Russia, Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan; the South is Central and South America, Africa, the Middle East, India/China, and Southeast Asia. c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_North_and_Global_South https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_North_and_Global_South
- ehnto 5y agoThank you for that clarification, it confused me and seemed a little ignorant at first glance. It would seem north and south geographically have nothing to do with the term.
- smnrchrds 5y agoIt does have something to do with geography, but it is imprecise. The same way 'western' is imprecise, because it always includes Australia and New Zealand. And 'first world' is imprecise, because of it has roots in the cold war, thus should not include countries like Switzerland.
- switchbak 5y agoTo be more accurate, when you say the Global North includes "American" economies, that means specifically the USA and Canada, and not Mexico. That's different from 'American', and even 'North American'.
- maccolgan 5y agoThis is one of the most retarded demographic terms I have seen, who came up with this and why?
- Handytinge 5y agoI'm unsure the creator of these terms has ever seen a map!
- Tepix 5y agoThe role of repair is embossed into bluewater cruisers who spend a lot of time at sea. Things break all the time and the way to succeed regardless is by having lots of spare parts, tools, knowledge, a supportive community and by practicing preventive maintenance. The rise of the throwaway product is a rather recent phenomenon. Our grandparents repaired everything. It's the only sustainable approach.
- handrous 5y agoRepair culture happens when stuff's expensive and labor's cheap. Both are false and getting, uh, falser.
- betwixthewires 5y agoWell, sure, if it is an organic economic/social phenomenon and the natural result of development of a society and economy, fine. But if the rise of throwaway culture were entirely organic we wouldn't have attempts to ban repair and planned obsolescence.
- Tepix 5y agoIt also happens when stuff is not readily available.
- jedimastert 5y ago> Our grandparents repaired everything I think our grandparents had just as many disposable things as we do, just not nearly as expensive. I think the idea of disposable products basically began with the industrial revolution, when mass production became easy, if not necessarily "cheap" yet
- aspenmayer 5y agoIt started with disposable razor blades, right around the turn of the century iirc
- rootusrootus 5y ago> The rise of the throwaway product is a rather recent phenomenon. Our grandparents repaired everything. It's the only sustainable approach. How do you change that, though? Our grandparents repaired things because they were expensive. In the 50s, a washer & dryer cost $500. In today's money that would be over $5000. And income has gone up even more. Purely in economic terms it has become considerably less appealing to fix a broken appliance.
- Havoc 5y agoReminds me of this bash.org <DmncAtrny> I will write on a huge cement block "BY ACCEPTING THIS BRICK THROUGH YOUR WINDOW, YOU ACCEPT IT AS IS AND AGREE TO MY DISCLAIMER OF ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS WELL AS DISCLAIMERS OF ALL LIABILITY, DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL, THAT MAY ARISE FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THIS BRICK INTO YOUR BUILDING." <DmncAtrny> And then hurl it through the window of a Sony officer <DmncAtrny> and run like hell
- dylan604 5y agoI don't think this needs to be limited to Sony
- jazzyjackson 5y agoMight have been especially relevant to Sony's rootkit scandal, where playing a CD in your computer will prompt a EULA that then installs software (notably unmentioned in the EULA) that prevents you from burning a copies of that CD, plus "phone's home" with IP address and what music is being played. Luckily nowadays users just install Spotify, no need to bother with rootkits.
- teawrecks 5y agoI wonder why the music industry seems to be ok with 1 music streaming service having all the content, but for movies and tv we need dozens of different streaming services, each with their own content so everyone gets the cut they want. I think it's because the movie/tv industries are unionized and everyone has to get paid, so they have to get more from the customer side. Whereas in the music industry, we're ok with musicians being "starving artists", so the labels can just pay the artists less.
- thereisnospork 5y agoThis is one area where music has got it right, imo. The value of a singular service with 'all' the content is higher than a plurality of services each with only a little. In other words I'd happily pay more per month for the Spotify of TV, movies, and sports that I currently do for a sampling of the usual streaming services.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoI wonder if some manufacturers are succumbing to copyrightism, a tag for the mental disorder that obsesses with control over the product - to the detriment of all else.
- beckman466 5y ago> copyrightism i've not heard of this. is it the same as critiquing the intellectual property system as a whole? if not, how is it different?
- knodi123 5y ago> is it the same as critiquing the intellectual property system as a whole? Sounds like it's more concerned with the opposite, human side - the madness that grips people who have some control and are terrified of losing it, so they use copyright (and lobbying for copyright enhancements and extensions) to keep themselves from ever having to relinquish anything they can't get back.
- go_blue_13 5y agoinb4 all the Apple dick riders come in talking about how its actually a good thing you can't repair your own stuff, and if you don't like it you should just buy another brand
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Underphil 5y agoIt's a vicious cycle. As things become less repairable (due to complexity or forced obsolescence) new generations will lose the ability to figure things out and effect a repair. I presume that's what these companies want.
- just_steve_h 5y agoThis is an outstanding article that invites all of us in technology to question some of the foundations our current world is built upon: ownership of intellectual property; rapid obsolescence; indeed, monopoly capitalism itself. The readers of HN would do well to think long and carefully about the ideas herein. The fate of our world may depend upon it.
- jaclaz 5y agoThere is also the (missing) requirement to make things easily repairable, I wouldn't mind at all to replace a "subsystem" if it was easily swappable and costed a fair amount and the old one was refurbished. Many years ago there was an Italian maker of (at the time CRT's) TV's which was considered on one side "cheap" but on the other "simple/indestructible" called MIVAR. Their TV's AFAICR were essentially made of 6 or 8 electronic cards/PCB's on a sort of backplane of connectors. You brought the (not working) TV to the (approved) repairman, he would open the back of the TV, identify which card had issues, and replace it in like 5-10 minutes, for a fixed price (depending on which card had to be replaced). Then the cards were sent to the factory where they had a laboratory to diagnose the issue and replace just the component(s) that failed, and these refurbished cards were sent back to the repair shops.
- mcguire 5y agoThere are similar systems today. I have a 2004 Corvette. When I got it several years ago, it had (like many others of its ilk) a failed ABS/traction controller. Removing it was slightly complicated by the fact that it had servos connected to the hydraulic braking system, but wasn't difficult. And fortunately, at least at the time, there were a couple small companies in the business of refurbishing brake controllers. The refurbished controller has been working perfectly ever since. Not cheap, but very significantly cheaper than a new unit.
- quantified 5y agoCan’t wait until medical providers deliver your baby with a contract that says only they have the right to deliver care in the future.
- wackget 5y agoThis is a great article, however I feel a bit like it's shouting into an echo chamber. Many people in sci/tech industries are already aware of the importance of repairability and right to repair controversies. For an article like this to actually make a difference to the entire population, it needs to be written and published somewhere the general public will see it. It also needs to be dumbed down and put into terms the average person will understand: lose the "robotic arm" example and start talking about how that shiny $2000 exercise bike that you just bought for your wife will someday, inevitably, become an expensive ornament because Peloton's servers have shut down and the hardware/software can't be modified. Until the average person cares about repairability, longevity, and hardware ownership, it just won't take hold. In my opinion.