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I'm waiting for the world to catch up with the fact that looking up information while you are working is a core part of any real job. Do I care if my Linux Secu

I'm waiting for the world to catch up with the fact that looking up information while you are working is a core part of any real job. Do I care if my Linux Security Professional spends a few minutes looking up information on the internet before taking some action? It's not the case that anyone can solve any problem so long as they have a search engine. Without domain knowledge, an open ended web search is not going to lead to a convincing answer except for the most trivial questions. This extends to coding interviews as well. Using the resources at one's disposal to get a sense of the landscape before diving into algorithms must surely be part of the job, right? What do I care if a developer needs a quick reminder before diving into a solution, or even reads up a bit and scans someone else's code before answering? What is the value in ensuring that people have perfect recall if this is something that will almost never be necessary in a real world job?

bengale 5y ago
It's always seemed a little off. I've been coding for 15 or so years and I still sometimes completely blank on certain javascript array functions and need to google it.
vianneychevalie 5y ago
In consulting I produce better thought-out and constructed recommendations if I parse a book and previously-delivered decks of slides. Hell, even ISO standards. On the other hand, at least a basic level of recollection is necessary for quick thinking in meetings, you don't always have the time to look up documentation.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  And you can perfectly evaluate that by setting a realistic (!) time limit and judging the quality of the answers. It's absolutely irrelevant how much recollection you have if you still manage to solve the problem efficiently.
dunnevens 5y ago
I took an astronomy course a few years ago which had a fairly forward-thinking (if a bit lazy) instructor. The initial tests were fairly conventional. But for the intense test right before the final, he gave us a comprehensive take-home. With the full assumption we'd be hitting Google hard for the more difficult questions. He knew this was a complex topic. Thought we'd learn more and retain more with a test where we had to show some initiative in finding the right answers without the stress of having to remember it on the spot. Plus, it doubled as a study guide for the actual final which was only a couple of weeks later. I thought it was a remarkably kind thing to do. Took out a little stress. Gave even the struggling students an easy "A". And it worked as a comprehensive guide to almost everything we covered.
mijamo 5y ago
You are not thinking about the real risk. It is not about preventing a candidate to Google a few things on the side. It is to prevent a completely different person from doing the exam instead of the candidate and simply sending them the answers. And don't think it is just an abstract threat, there are whole businesses built around that. Unfortunately there is not much you can do to have exams remotely and be sure the candidate is the one doing the exam without being extremely invasive.
- rickspencer3 5y ago
  This is a good point that I had not, in fact, considered.
soco 5y ago
I bombed once an interview at a major bank when the hiring manager insisted what I would do if something happened to the system, and there would be no internet to search for answers. When I answered that nobody would notice the system was crashed if there was no internet didn't please him very much.
- kabdib 5y ago
  Ironically enough, you might not have internet access at your datacenter (reception issues, so no wifi or phone data, and switchport connections are often secured or don't route to a public internet). And things get really entertaining when your whole office network is down. It's not an odd question. "Okay, the whole subnet where your credentials server used to be is now a smoking hole in the ground, and IT forgot to pay the fiber bill last month. What do you wish you'd done three years earlier to address this problem?"
seanc 5y ago
I invite candidates to "error out" to internet resources and use their own professional judgement about what is and is not okay. To set people at ease I tell them up front that only one candidate has crossed the line (googled the solution) and everyone else has made perfectly appropriate choices; "elseif or elif?" and small details like that.

bengale 5y ago

It's always seemed a little off. I've been coding for 15 or so years and I still sometimes completely blank on certain javascript array functions and need to google it.

vianneychevalie 5y ago

In consulting I produce better thought-out and constructed recommendations if I parse a book and previously-delivered decks of slides. Hell, even ISO standards. On the other hand, at least a basic level of recollection is necessary for quick thinking in meetings, you don't always have the time to look up documentation.

Sebb767 5y ago
And you can perfectly evaluate that by setting a realistic (!) time limit and judging the quality of the answers. It's absolutely irrelevant how much recollection you have if you still manage to solve the problem efficiently.

dunnevens 5y ago

I took an astronomy course a few years ago which had a fairly forward-thinking (if a bit lazy) instructor. The initial tests were fairly conventional. But for the intense test right before the final, he gave us a comprehensive take-home. With the full assumption we'd be hitting Google hard for the more difficult questions. He knew this was a complex topic. Thought we'd learn more and retain more with a test where we had to show some initiative in finding the right answers without the stress of having to remember it on the spot. Plus, it doubled as a study guide for the actual final which was only a couple of weeks later. I thought it was a remarkably kind thing to do. Took out a little stress. Gave even the struggling students an easy "A". And it worked as a comprehensive guide to almost everything we covered.

mijamo 5y ago

You are not thinking about the real risk. It is not about preventing a candidate to Google a few things on the side. It is to prevent a completely different person from doing the exam instead of the candidate and simply sending them the answers. And don't think it is just an abstract threat, there are whole businesses built around that. Unfortunately there is not much you can do to have exams remotely and be sure the candidate is the one doing the exam without being extremely invasive.

rickspencer3 5y ago
This is a good point that I had not, in fact, considered.

soco 5y ago

I bombed once an interview at a major bank when the hiring manager insisted what I would do if something happened to the system, and there would be no internet to search for answers. When I answered that nobody would notice the system was crashed if there was no internet didn't please him very much.

kabdib 5y ago
Ironically enough, you might not have internet access at your datacenter (reception issues, so no wifi or phone data, and switchport connections are often secured or don't route to a public internet). And things get really entertaining when your whole office network is down. It's not an odd question. "Okay, the whole subnet where your credentials server used to be is now a smoking hole in the ground, and IT forgot to pay the fiber bill last month. What do you wish you'd done three years earlier to address this problem?"

seanc 5y ago

I invite candidates to "error out" to internet resources and use their own professional judgement about what is and is not okay. To set people at ease I tell them up front that only one candidate has crossed the line (googled the solution) and everyone else has made perfectly appropriate choices; "elseif or elif?" and small details like that.