7 ms·

It took a second for me to make this connection, but the Charlie Munger in this article is the same Charlie Munger who designed that windowless dorm at UCSB tha

by g_sch 5y ago

It took a second for me to make this connection, but the Charlie Munger in this article is the same Charlie Munger who designed that windowless dorm at UCSB that made the news a few days back. [0] I wonder if he applied the same principles to designing that building. [0] https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-protest-over-ucsb-mega-dorm/ https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-...

deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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xibalba 5y ago
It's amazingly "on brand" that HN commenters upon the Munger quote at the top of this article. Being a fellow HN'er, I'll follow suit: The most obvious response to Munger's critics is, "Then don't live there." The U.S. is blessed with a huge number of universities, meaning lot's of choice. Particularly for those individuals with the type of accomplishments that would get them into UCSB. (It's not Stanford, but it is very selective)
- CPLX 5y ago
  And the most obvious response to billionaires who think their money buys them the right to run public institutions is "go fuck yourself". The University of California system is owned by, and created for the benefit of, the people of California. Decisions about how it should be run and what the dorms should look like should be made by democratic institutions and accountable to the public through regular elections. Billionaires are blessed with a huge number of leisure time activities and ways to feed their own outsized egos, meaning lots of choice. Particularly for those individuals with the type of money that would allow them to donate entire large buildings. Perhaps he could engage in those activities, and limit his interaction with public institutions to paying his fair share of taxes, and casting the single vote to which he is entitled.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    If you don't want the money, then don't take the money. It isn't like Charlie bumrushed them and said he was building a dorm whether they liked it or not.
    - CPLX 5y ago
      Yes, that is in fact what I'm suggesting. Or to be more precise I am suggesting that the state take his money anyways, via taxation, and then decide how to spend it through democratic means.
rtkwe 5y ago
Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.
- shwoopdiwoop 5y ago
  Except all the outrage came from people who never lived in his buildings, and the ones who did gave it overwhelmingly great reviews.
  - jquery 5y ago
    Rave reviews? It seems low quality paid reviews are worth every penny. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    The reviews I saw all painted the lack if windows as a major negative. Something worth tolerating because of the building's central location. The residents who had to stay there during the pandemic, when communal areas were not so utilized, were even more critical, describing it as "depressing"
  - adewinter 5y ago
    The building has not yet been built.
    - d23 5y ago
      There was a similarly designed building someone linked to in a previous thread that had rave reviews pre-Covid.
    - nisegami 5y ago
jquery 5y ago
Yes. Except it looks like he was thinking “how can I make student housing intolerable” and stopped there, instead of inverting it.
- intpx 5y ago
  I traded the walk in closet for my bed and desk space in my freshman quad. not having windows was a small price to pay for not having to share the air with 3 other freakin weirdos.One of them could only sleep with a desk lamp on, which didnt bother one of the others who was 100% nocturnal and went into an absolute rage if you woke him up before about 6pm. The third pretty much lived in another room
  - jquery 5y ago
    I sympathize. I’d rather live in a closet myself than share a room with someone else. I’m someone who finds that old Hong Kong city monstrosity fascinating and would probably enjoy living in it, in a cyberpunk way. But I wouldn’t design a dorm around my own peculiar proclivities. Nor am I an architect, and I’ll defer to the experts on this.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Or...perhaps he put the actual thought into it, instead of you who is just going with their gut reaction.
xyzelement 5y ago
From what I see in responses to you, Munger has designed other well-received dorms in the past so that gives him credibility on this topic. It doesn't mean he's right but it's a good chance his thinking is more nuanced than those shitting on it - especially coupled with the current article that describes how he thinks. This is total conjecture but I can imagine him doing something like this: Question: how do you make students the most miserable? Answer: create a dorm that discourages social interaction, and is far from classes and amenities. Starting from that, you do the opposite: create a large, centrally located dorm where the design discourages sitting in your room and encourages use of shared spaces while benefiting from greater density and central location. If the question is "are windowless rooms good?" the answer is "no." If the question is "are we willing to sacrifice bedroom windows so that we have grater communal life and better walkability" the answer is probably "yes, possibly." Logically it's the same argument for why some people prefer to live in small city apartments when they could live in a much larger home elsewhere for the same price. The very nature of city real estate is tied to the nature of city life (both as a cause as an affect) and it's simply a tradeoff. Asked on its own "do you want a cramped apartment" the answer is always "no" yet people often opt for it in context.
- OneTimePetes 5y ago
  And all the stoner gamer students with the blinds down cheered.
- jquery 5y ago
  >well-received By whom? A suspicious site with terrible English and reviews like “you’ll get used to it” and “grat (sic) room”. If Amazon can’t keep scammy reviews away, how is some site like “veryapt” supposed to do so? It seems there is plenty of criticism of the Michigan project (even from residents)[1], but it also differs in a key point, in that all the rooms are suites, whereas the proposed project is even denser, with 8 bedrooms sharing 2 bathrooms a piece. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...*
  - tim333 5y ago
thehappypm 5y ago
I love the dorm design personally and I think its only sin is the lack of windows. If each room had windows I think this design — giving students both privacy and social spaces — would be considered a step forward. (The “two entrances” argument I think is kind of irrelevant, skyscrapers only have one entrance and it works out fine).

by g_sch 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

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deleted 5y ago
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xibalba 5y ago

It's amazingly "on brand" that HN commenters upon the Munger quote at the top of this article. Being a fellow HN'er, I'll follow suit: The most obvious response to Munger's critics is, "Then don't live there." The U.S. is blessed with a huge number of universities, meaning lot's of choice. Particularly for those individuals with the type of accomplishments that would get them into UCSB. (It's not Stanford, but it is very selective)

CPLX 5y ago
And the most obvious response to billionaires who think their money buys them the right to run public institutions is "go fuck yourself". The University of California system is owned by, and created for the benefit of, the people of California. Decisions about how it should be run and what the dorms should look like should be made by democratic institutions and accountable to the public through regular elections. Billionaires are blessed with a huge number of leisure time activities and ways to feed their own outsized egos, meaning lots of choice. Particularly for those individuals with the type of money that would allow them to donate entire large buildings. Perhaps he could engage in those activities, and limit his interaction with public institutions to paying his fair share of taxes, and casting the single vote to which he is entitled.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  If you don't want the money, then don't take the money. It isn't like Charlie bumrushed them and said he was building a dorm whether they liked it or not.
  - CPLX 5y ago
    Yes, that is in fact what I'm suggesting. Or to be more precise I am suggesting that the state take his money anyways, via taxation, and then decide how to spend it through democratic means.

rtkwe 5y ago

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

shwoopdiwoop 5y ago
Except all the outrage came from people who never lived in his buildings, and the ones who did gave it overwhelmingly great reviews.
- jquery 5y ago
  Rave reviews? It seems low quality paid reviews are worth every penny. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  The reviews I saw all painted the lack if windows as a major negative. Something worth tolerating because of the building's central location. The residents who had to stay there during the pandemic, when communal areas were not so utilized, were even more critical, describing it as "depressing"
- adewinter 5y ago
  The building has not yet been built.
  - d23 5y ago
    There was a similarly designed building someone linked to in a previous thread that had rave reviews pre-Covid.
  - nisegami 5y ago

jquery 5y ago

Yes. Except it looks like he was thinking “how can I make student housing intolerable” and stopped there, instead of inverting it.

intpx 5y ago
I traded the walk in closet for my bed and desk space in my freshman quad. not having windows was a small price to pay for not having to share the air with 3 other freakin weirdos.One of them could only sleep with a desk lamp on, which didnt bother one of the others who was 100% nocturnal and went into an absolute rage if you woke him up before about 6pm. The third pretty much lived in another room
- jquery 5y ago
  I sympathize. I’d rather live in a closet myself than share a room with someone else. I’m someone who finds that old Hong Kong city monstrosity fascinating and would probably enjoy living in it, in a cyberpunk way. But I wouldn’t design a dorm around my own peculiar proclivities. Nor am I an architect, and I’ll defer to the experts on this.
oh_sigh 5y ago
Or...perhaps he put the actual thought into it, instead of you who is just going with their gut reaction.

xyzelement 5y ago

From what I see in responses to you, Munger has designed other well-received dorms in the past so that gives him credibility on this topic. It doesn't mean he's right but it's a good chance his thinking is more nuanced than those shitting on it - especially coupled with the current article that describes how he thinks. This is total conjecture but I can imagine him doing something like this: Question: how do you make students the most miserable? Answer: create a dorm that discourages social interaction, and is far from classes and amenities. Starting from that, you do the opposite: create a large, centrally located dorm where the design discourages sitting in your room and encourages use of shared spaces while benefiting from greater density and central location. If the question is "are windowless rooms good?" the answer is "no." If the question is "are we willing to sacrifice bedroom windows so that we have grater communal life and better walkability" the answer is probably "yes, possibly." Logically it's the same argument for why some people prefer to live in small city apartments when they could live in a much larger home elsewhere for the same price. The very nature of city real estate is tied to the nature of city life (both as a cause as an affect) and it's simply a tradeoff. Asked on its own "do you want a cramped apartment" the answer is always "no" yet people often opt for it in context.

OneTimePetes 5y ago
And all the stoner gamer students with the blinds down cheered.
jquery 5y ago
>well-received By whom? A suspicious site with terrible English and reviews like “you’ll get used to it” and “grat (sic) room”. If Amazon can’t keep scammy reviews away, how is some site like “veryapt” supposed to do so? It seems there is plenty of criticism of the Michigan project (even from residents)[1], but it also differs in a key point, in that all the rooms are suites, whereas the proposed project is even denser, with 8 bedrooms sharing 2 bathrooms a piece. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_was_a_university_of_michigan_student_who_lived/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/comments/qkmp5h/i_wa...*
- tim333 5y ago

thehappypm 5y ago

I love the dorm design personally and I think its only sin is the lack of windows. If each room had windows I think this design — giving students both privacy and social spaces — would be considered a step forward. (The “two entrances” argument I think is kind of irrelevant, skyscrapers only have one entrance and it works out fine).