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I saw something like this described here: https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1455325800291397633 https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1455325800291397633 My personal

I saw something like this described here: https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1455325800291397633 https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1455325800291397633 My personal view here is that your continued ability to own an NFT depends on your ability to tell an interesting story. If 51% of the professional clout of the art world decides you don't own something any more, you ... might not? If the metadata that denote ownership of beeple's first 5000 everydays are accidentally overwritten due to a small bug, probably everyone will agree to ignore that. But if someone puts on a super cool art-thief costume and does a livestream where they write and execute software that resets the ownership so it's their art now, while they play "The Thomas Crown Affair" soundtrack in the background, probably everyone will go along with this, yeah? (Certainly the theft of the Mona Lisa increased its value!)

Uehreka 5y ago
If it’s really down to social consensus and not the state of the blockchain, then does the blockchain mean anything at all?
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  The most important thing to understand about the blockchain is that it's a tool to facilitate social consensus. Once you get that, everything makes sense, from why bitcoin has value to the point of NFTs. It's worth taking time to think about it until it at least makes sense what's happening, even if you don't choose to participate yourself.
  - lupire 5y ago
    It's equally important to understand that the biggest names in the system are mostly fraudsters. It's a natural consequence of a system whose primary purpose is to replace government with "law of the jungle". That's only useful to people who want to live outside the law, because they are either persecuted or predators. The law exists because it works for most people. If you disagree with that, and believe it's imposed by some cartel by force, the you need an answer for why your alternative system won't also be dominated by people who would assert their power by force.
- roywiggins 5y ago
  Not technically, but the story of "being on the blockchain" does seem to matter.
- cslarson 5y ago
  It's more convenient to query a database than to ask everyone.
  - danpalmer 5y ago
    Which database to you query? They're on the blockchain, but you have to know which format you're accepting, how to verify, etc. Do you accept OpenSea as the source of truth for NFT ownership? How about Foundation? What about MyFirstMarketplace, the one that I've decided to create? This requires some social contract to know who the authority is, and that's probably based on how much they have spent on marketing to become The Authority. It always comes back to social contracts.
    - cslarson 5y ago
      The blockchain is the database. It stores objects and, like postgres, can store code for manipulating the objects. Each NFT would have a particular storage location which you can query, either directly via a block explorer like etherscan.io or via javascript using any one of a number of apis like ethers.js
      - danpalmer 5y ago
        The blockchain isn't the database, it's just the storage medium. There are multiple different NFT database on top of the blockchain, implemented in different ways by different people, conforming to different standards.
      - meheleventyone 5y ago
        This sub-thread is talking about an existing case where an NFT has been taken from the person who paid for it by social engineering. The new owner won’t return it so the marketplaces have blacklisted the NFT. So querying the chain isn’t enough in this case because social consensus has determined the chain to be wrong.
      - convolvatron 5y ago
        you missed the part where the parent asked 'who is the authority' if there are 20 NFT chains, and 10 of them assign ownership to A, and 5 of them assign it to B and the other 5 don't assign it at all - what can we say anymore about the ownership? all of this public ledger stuff might make more sense if, unlike as is customary, there is a single authoritative chain instead of a 'marketplace' of chains.

Uehreka 5y ago

If it’s really down to social consensus and not the state of the blockchain, then does the blockchain mean anything at all?

TigeriusKirk 5y ago
The most important thing to understand about the blockchain is that it's a tool to facilitate social consensus. Once you get that, everything makes sense, from why bitcoin has value to the point of NFTs. It's worth taking time to think about it until it at least makes sense what's happening, even if you don't choose to participate yourself.
- lupire 5y ago
  It's equally important to understand that the biggest names in the system are mostly fraudsters. It's a natural consequence of a system whose primary purpose is to replace government with "law of the jungle". That's only useful to people who want to live outside the law, because they are either persecuted or predators. The law exists because it works for most people. If you disagree with that, and believe it's imposed by some cartel by force, the you need an answer for why your alternative system won't also be dominated by people who would assert their power by force.
roywiggins 5y ago
Not technically, but the story of "being on the blockchain" does seem to matter.
cslarson 5y ago
It's more convenient to query a database than to ask everyone.
- danpalmer 5y ago
  Which database to you query? They're on the blockchain, but you have to know which format you're accepting, how to verify, etc. Do you accept OpenSea as the source of truth for NFT ownership? How about Foundation? What about MyFirstMarketplace, the one that I've decided to create? This requires some social contract to know who the authority is, and that's probably based on how much they have spent on marketing to become The Authority. It always comes back to social contracts.
  - cslarson 5y ago
    The blockchain is the database. It stores objects and, like postgres, can store code for manipulating the objects. Each NFT would have a particular storage location which you can query, either directly via a block explorer like etherscan.io or via javascript using any one of a number of apis like ethers.js
    - danpalmer 5y ago
      The blockchain isn't the database, it's just the storage medium. There are multiple different NFT database on top of the blockchain, implemented in different ways by different people, conforming to different standards.
    - meheleventyone 5y ago
      This sub-thread is talking about an existing case where an NFT has been taken from the person who paid for it by social engineering. The new owner won’t return it so the marketplaces have blacklisted the NFT. So querying the chain isn’t enough in this case because social consensus has determined the chain to be wrong.
    - convolvatron 5y ago
      you missed the part where the parent asked 'who is the authority' if there are 20 NFT chains, and 10 of them assign ownership to A, and 5 of them assign it to B and the other 5 don't assign it at all - what can we say anymore about the ownership? all of this public ledger stuff might make more sense if, unlike as is customary, there is a single authoritative chain instead of a 'marketplace' of chains.