5 ms·

This isn't really how "industry" weaponized science, but how the "tobacco industry" weaponized science. That's a story we call know. How about other examples?

newsclues 5y ago
Fossil fuels, sugar vs fat… Covid-19
- Croftengea 5y ago
  I think that fossil fuel scientific bias goth both ways.
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    "goth bias" apparently
  - SQueeeeeL 5y ago
    This comment makes me feel like I live in a very boring cyperpunk dystopia
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    comments above say it is not possible to lack bias, given a system of funders, competing Principal Investigators, and imperfect researchers. The comment "fossil fuel scientific bias goes both ways" reduces that even more to "both of two sides do this" which leaps into a simplistic duality, where in fact there is system and multiple topics. In other words, this comment leads to direct polarized partisanship.. far removed from actual scientific practice If topic at hand is "How Industry Weaponizes Research", the comment "fossil fuel scientific bias goes both ways" of "both sides" (as if there were only two sides to anything) is an example of "How to Weaponize comments on YNews" (!)
  - queuebert 5y ago
    Possibly, but one way has MUCH worse consequences than the other.
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Sorry I should be more specific I was thinking about leaded gasoline, but Exxon hide climate change data for decades as well
- gruez 5y ago
  >sugar vs fat the strange part about that was why there was no counter-propaganda from the fat side. Surely any PR person worth their salt would pay some scientists to poke holes in studies saying that your products are bad? >Covid-19 do tell.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    Regarding sugar and fat, it's two sides of the same coin. Food companies just released a bunch of low-fat products alongside their regular products.
  - csee 5y ago
    Covid-19: lockdowns caused a huge transfer of wealth from small businesses and services to big tech, media and Amazon. Did that motivate decision making and political pressure? I have no idea - perhaps not. But the financial incentive from certain actors was there.
  - newsclues 5y ago
    How many years did it take to debunk well funded science misinformation? There is a chance that will occur again. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635
    - SyzygistSix 5y ago
      The article was incredibly unspecific. No mention if the data from that site ended up being used. No mention that there were multiple sites run by multiple companies doing the testing, which is normal. What stage trials were these? Again, no mention. This is b.s. fearmongering, as if sharps in the wrong bin means the drug was not tested for efficacy or safety. I lived with someone project managing a failed pharmaceutical testing run. They throw the data out and use the accurate data from the many other sites. Or do the trials over. It happens. It wastes lots of money but it is no big deal in the grand scheme of things and certainly does not mean the drug is approved without adequate safety and efficacy testing.
  - webmaven 5y ago
kiliantics 5y ago
There are lots of ways the fossil fuel industry is currently misrepresenting science, such as overstating the potential of carbon capture technology to undo the emissions they intend to keep making.
fsflover 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926 Anti-GMO: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126531
wpietri 5y ago
Off the top of my head, fossil carbon, asbestos, and lead. HN discussed the last 2 months back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 But the real question is how many times we don't hear about it. Many on HN are, like many executives, big on the duty of companies to maximize shareholder value. And this sort of manufactured doubt obviously increased shareholder value for a long period. So the real question becomes not "did anybody else ever do this" but "who wouldn't use a potent, cost-effective way to keep profits up?"
potta_coffee 5y ago
Science in the food industry is used to make processed foods as addictive and un-satiating as possible. Psychology is used to make apps like Facebook as addicting as possible and hook emotions like fear and rage to boost engagement.
toomanybeersies 5y ago
First thing that comes to mind is the alcohol industry, with the regular "drinking moderate amounts is actually good for you" headlines I keep reading.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I've learned to completely ignore any headline that suggests eating 'x' or drinking 'y' reduces my cancer risk, makes me healthier, or in any way changes my life. Remember when cholesterol in eggs was a big problem? And then remember when eggs became a superfood?
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    Broccoli is never going to be blamed for giving people cancer or making them overweight.
    - 323 5y ago
      > Eating too much broccoli can be bad for your health. Here’s why https://www.healthshots.com/healthy-eating/superfoods/broccoli-nutrition-health-risks-of-eating-too-much-broccoli/ https://www.healthshots.com/healthy-eating/superfoods/brocco...
cronix 5y ago
Research Edward Bernays. The nephew of of Sigmund Freud, and often referred to as the "pioneer/father of public relations/propaganda." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays He basically weaponized psychology, group psychology to be more accurate, and still in full effect today. I mean, how else do you get young women to suddenly buck societal trends and start smoking at a time it was not "proper" to do so? Another clever trick is when the food industry started coming out with ready-made foods to prepare, like instant cake mix. This was during a time when most people cooked from scratch, and didn't trust this magical box of powder you just add water to and bake. How nutritious could that be vs baking from scratch with whole ingredients? Well, the solution was pretty clever. "Add one fresh egg." It wasn't necessary to the cake mix, but it helped women feel like they're still using real, healthy ingredients and the product stated to really take off. Here are some of his better known feats: https://listverse.com/2019/09/26/edward-bernays-freud-tricked-us/ https://listverse.com/2019/09/26/edward-bernays-freud-tricke... Decent video about him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c

newsclues 5y ago

Fossil fuels, sugar vs fat… Covid-19

Croftengea 5y ago
I think that fossil fuel scientific bias goth both ways.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  "goth bias" apparently
- SQueeeeeL 5y ago
  This comment makes me feel like I live in a very boring cyperpunk dystopia
- mistrial9 5y ago
  comments above say it is not possible to lack bias, given a system of funders, competing Principal Investigators, and imperfect researchers. The comment "fossil fuel scientific bias goes both ways" reduces that even more to "both of two sides do this" which leaps into a simplistic duality, where in fact there is system and multiple topics. In other words, this comment leads to direct polarized partisanship.. far removed from actual scientific practice If topic at hand is "How Industry Weaponizes Research", the comment "fossil fuel scientific bias goes both ways" of "both sides" (as if there were only two sides to anything) is an example of "How to Weaponize comments on YNews" (!)
- queuebert 5y ago
  Possibly, but one way has MUCH worse consequences than the other.
- newsclues 5y ago
  Sorry I should be more specific I was thinking about leaded gasoline, but Exxon hide climate change data for decades as well
gruez 5y ago
>sugar vs fat the strange part about that was why there was no counter-propaganda from the fat side. Surely any PR person worth their salt would pay some scientists to poke holes in studies saying that your products are bad? >Covid-19 do tell.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  Regarding sugar and fat, it's two sides of the same coin. Food companies just released a bunch of low-fat products alongside their regular products.
- csee 5y ago
  Covid-19: lockdowns caused a huge transfer of wealth from small businesses and services to big tech, media and Amazon. Did that motivate decision making and political pressure? I have no idea - perhaps not. But the financial incentive from certain actors was there.
- newsclues 5y ago
  How many years did it take to debunk well funded science misinformation? There is a chance that will occur again. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635 https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    The article was incredibly unspecific. No mention if the data from that site ended up being used. No mention that there were multiple sites run by multiple companies doing the testing, which is normal. What stage trials were these? Again, no mention. This is b.s. fearmongering, as if sharps in the wrong bin means the drug was not tested for efficacy or safety. I lived with someone project managing a failed pharmaceutical testing run. They throw the data out and use the accurate data from the many other sites. Or do the trials over. It happens. It wastes lots of money but it is no big deal in the grand scheme of things and certainly does not mean the drug is approved without adequate safety and efficacy testing.
- webmaven 5y ago

kiliantics 5y ago

There are lots of ways the fossil fuel industry is currently misrepresenting science, such as overstating the potential of carbon capture technology to undo the emissions they intend to keep making.

fsflover 5y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126926 Anti-GMO: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126531

wpietri 5y ago

Off the top of my head, fossil carbon, asbestos, and lead. HN discussed the last 2 months back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 But the real question is how many times we don't hear about it. Many on HN are, like many executives, big on the duty of companies to maximize shareholder value. And this sort of manufactured doubt obviously increased shareholder value for a long period. So the real question becomes not "did anybody else ever do this" but "who wouldn't use a potent, cost-effective way to keep profits up?"

potta_coffee 5y ago

Science in the food industry is used to make processed foods as addictive and un-satiating as possible. Psychology is used to make apps like Facebook as addicting as possible and hook emotions like fear and rage to boost engagement.

toomanybeersies 5y ago

First thing that comes to mind is the alcohol industry, with the regular "drinking moderate amounts is actually good for you" headlines I keep reading.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I've learned to completely ignore any headline that suggests eating 'x' or drinking 'y' reduces my cancer risk, makes me healthier, or in any way changes my life. Remember when cholesterol in eggs was a big problem? And then remember when eggs became a superfood?
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  Broccoli is never going to be blamed for giving people cancer or making them overweight.
  - 323 5y ago
    > Eating too much broccoli can be bad for your health. Here’s why https://www.healthshots.com/healthy-eating/superfoods/broccoli-nutrition-health-risks-of-eating-too-much-broccoli/ https://www.healthshots.com/healthy-eating/superfoods/brocco...

cronix 5y ago

Research Edward Bernays. The nephew of of Sigmund Freud, and often referred to as the "pioneer/father of public relations/propaganda." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays He basically weaponized psychology, group psychology to be more accurate, and still in full effect today. I mean, how else do you get young women to suddenly buck societal trends and start smoking at a time it was not "proper" to do so? Another clever trick is when the food industry started coming out with ready-made foods to prepare, like instant cake mix. This was during a time when most people cooked from scratch, and didn't trust this magical box of powder you just add water to and bake. How nutritious could that be vs baking from scratch with whole ingredients? Well, the solution was pretty clever. "Add one fresh egg." It wasn't necessary to the cake mix, but it helped women feel like they're still using real, healthy ingredients and the product stated to really take off. Here are some of his better known feats: https://listverse.com/2019/09/26/edward-bernays-freud-tricked-us/ https://listverse.com/2019/09/26/edward-bernays-freud-tricke... Decent video about him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c