4 ms·

I'm not sure what you are claiming. You probably won't get $300k in the EU, but if you do, a greater proportion of it will go to taxes - the things you get in r

I'm not sure what you are claiming. You probably won't get $300k in the EU, but if you do, a greater proportion of it will go to taxes - the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level. While US healthcare is very expensive, it's a service, which means it's tied to how much you pay, and not defined as a percentage of your gross income. If you make that much money, you can easily retire early, which wouldn't be possible with government pensions.

disiplus 5y ago
at that pay level in Europe you are almost certainly not going to social healthcare because in most of them you will not get the same level of service as in private hospital and will lose more time. so u usually end up paying the healthcare and using it only in extreme circumcises. there is Switzerland where that is different.
- cromka 5y ago
  > at that pay level in Europe you are almost certainly not going to social healthcare Even if you do, for anything more serious, especially emergency, you still use the public health care. And you won't get a massive bill because an ambulance brought you to an out-of-network hospital. The private healthcare is for regular outpatient care and, as such, substantially cheaper than the cost of insurance in US + all of the co-pays, coinsurance and out-of-network bills. Source: EU citizen in the US since 6 years.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Also here in Spain, the public healthcare system is just fine. I wouldn't use private. Public is good enough. But it's more about peace of mind. What if I lose that high paying job? I'll suddenly be in trouble for medical fees. Or income for that matter. That kind of security is really great to have. I wouldn't want to live in a country without it. The US has a kind of "every man for himself" attitude. It feels like it stems from the 'frontier' mindset. You can climb really high but also fall all the way down. And that's fine, to each their own. But it's not for me. I'm happy to just have enough to live comfortably and have a nice job and not have to worry too much. This is also why I'll never be an entrepreneur. I'm very happy being a salaried employee with the lower income but the rights and stability that come with it.
  - golemiprague 5y ago
    You are correct about the overall state of mind and culture but in practicality poor people in the US also have some security networks. There are all kind of government and charity based social help, including for medication, housing, food and whatnot. You can go to a state college for almost free or very cheap education. It is not that bad as people might think.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Please look up where the US ranks in healthcare quality globally before trying to denigrate other countries' health services. (hint: it ain't good)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- legulere 5y ago
  Im from Germany and was insured privately during my childhood and my parents still are. The public healthcare system is just as good, you have less stress with doctors using you to earn good money but have to wait sometimes longer for getting an appointment (which still is pretty fast in the international comparison)
  - cromka 5y ago
    > you have less stress with doctors using you to earn good money This is the most significant and initially intangible difference between US and EU healthcare. It takes a while to realize that in the US you are a source of money and a cost at the same time. At literally every step of the treatment process, everyone you meet will make it clear, either straight up or through an extreme efficiency, dehumanizing the whole process and leaving little room for a holistic approach to medicine, which is still predominant in the EU. The doctors in latter will actually spend time with you and if they figure problem is elsewhere, send you off to another specialist. In contrast, you and your insurer will be milked no matter what in the US.
dboreham 5y ago
> a greater proportion of it will go to taxes Is this true? Taxes in the US are pretty high if you have a high income, and remember to include state and local taxes, and property taxes. > the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level Perhaps, but it's also attractive that _other_ _people_ get those benefits because ultimately the level of stress everyone else is under has an effect on your quality of life, one way or another.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  I've looked into this and it seems the biggest difference is where the brackets are. They're much higher in the US, even if the marginal tax rate for high earners in California is not much lower than Germany.
  - sethammons 5y ago
    curious, did you then add medical insurance in? My understanding is that at the highest marginal rates, the two countries are similar, but then you consider that those in the US are also paying additional health insurance premiums.
    - jandrewrogers 5y ago
      The people in the US making enough money to pay top marginal rates are not paying for health insurance in any meaningful way. It is paid for by the company as a benefit and very high quality. Even if that wasn’t the case, if you are paying those kinds of tax rates then the cost of the very best insurance is essentially inconsequential relative to your income. An experienced software engineer might take home, after taxes, $15-20k/month in my US tech city. High-quality health insurance for an entire family is on the order of $1-2k/month, assuming you had to pay for it yourself. If you are a FAANG-level engineer, not only are you not paying for that but you are being paid twice as much. The cost of health insurance in the US is a real concern for the lower half of the middle class. Software engineers live in a completely different universe of concerns.

disiplus 5y ago

at that pay level in Europe you are almost certainly not going to social healthcare because in most of them you will not get the same level of service as in private hospital and will lose more time. so u usually end up paying the healthcare and using it only in extreme circumcises. there is Switzerland where that is different.

cromka 5y ago
> at that pay level in Europe you are almost certainly not going to social healthcare Even if you do, for anything more serious, especially emergency, you still use the public health care. And you won't get a massive bill because an ambulance brought you to an out-of-network hospital. The private healthcare is for regular outpatient care and, as such, substantially cheaper than the cost of insurance in US + all of the co-pays, coinsurance and out-of-network bills. Source: EU citizen in the US since 6 years.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Also here in Spain, the public healthcare system is just fine. I wouldn't use private. Public is good enough. But it's more about peace of mind. What if I lose that high paying job? I'll suddenly be in trouble for medical fees. Or income for that matter. That kind of security is really great to have. I wouldn't want to live in a country without it. The US has a kind of "every man for himself" attitude. It feels like it stems from the 'frontier' mindset. You can climb really high but also fall all the way down. And that's fine, to each their own. But it's not for me. I'm happy to just have enough to live comfortably and have a nice job and not have to worry too much. This is also why I'll never be an entrepreneur. I'm very happy being a salaried employee with the lower income but the rights and stability that come with it.
- golemiprague 5y ago
  You are correct about the overall state of mind and culture but in practicality poor people in the US also have some security networks. There are all kind of government and charity based social help, including for medication, housing, food and whatnot. You can go to a state college for almost free or very cheap education. It is not that bad as people might think.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Please look up where the US ranks in healthcare quality globally before trying to denigrate other countries' health services. (hint: it ain't good)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
legulere 5y ago
Im from Germany and was insured privately during my childhood and my parents still are. The public healthcare system is just as good, you have less stress with doctors using you to earn good money but have to wait sometimes longer for getting an appointment (which still is pretty fast in the international comparison)
- cromka 5y ago
  > you have less stress with doctors using you to earn good money This is the most significant and initially intangible difference between US and EU healthcare. It takes a while to realize that in the US you are a source of money and a cost at the same time. At literally every step of the treatment process, everyone you meet will make it clear, either straight up or through an extreme efficiency, dehumanizing the whole process and leaving little room for a holistic approach to medicine, which is still predominant in the EU. The doctors in latter will actually spend time with you and if they figure problem is elsewhere, send you off to another specialist. In contrast, you and your insurer will be milked no matter what in the US.

dboreham 5y ago

> a greater proportion of it will go to taxes Is this true? Taxes in the US are pretty high if you have a high income, and remember to include state and local taxes, and property taxes. > the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level Perhaps, but it's also attractive that _other_ _people_ get those benefits because ultimately the level of stress everyone else is under has an effect on your quality of life, one way or another.

bagacrap 5y ago
I've looked into this and it seems the biggest difference is where the brackets are. They're much higher in the US, even if the marginal tax rate for high earners in California is not much lower than Germany.
- sethammons 5y ago
  curious, did you then add medical insurance in? My understanding is that at the highest marginal rates, the two countries are similar, but then you consider that those in the US are also paying additional health insurance premiums.
  - jandrewrogers 5y ago
    The people in the US making enough money to pay top marginal rates are not paying for health insurance in any meaningful way. It is paid for by the company as a benefit and very high quality. Even if that wasn’t the case, if you are paying those kinds of tax rates then the cost of the very best insurance is essentially inconsequential relative to your income. An experienced software engineer might take home, after taxes, $15-20k/month in my US tech city. High-quality health insurance for an entire family is on the order of $1-2k/month, assuming you had to pay for it yourself. If you are a FAANG-level engineer, not only are you not paying for that but you are being paid twice as much. The cost of health insurance in the US is a real concern for the lower half of the middle class. Software engineers live in a completely different universe of concerns.