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I've seen what it requires for an individual to be in a country other than the USA and the US-based company not wanting to treat them as an employee due to the

I've seen what it requires for an individual to be in a country other than the USA and the US-based company not wanting to treat them as an employee due to the paperwork. That generally means they need to be an independent contractor so individual needs to set up a company in their own country and deal with all the issues associated with that and the tax implications. Most smaller companies won't deal with foreign employees and leave it all up to the individual, if those companies are will to do it as all.

londons_explore 5y ago
There are plenty of labor sourcing companies who will happily do all the paperwork (and take on the legal risk) for you to hire someone in a foreign country, but in fact you pay the labor company some fixed hourly rate, and they hire the worker as an employee. It's a good model, because then when the laws of the foreign country change to say "Women's average salaries must match mens" or "Workers shall be paid 2x rate on religious holidays" or "Employers shall pay extra tax for hiring people over the age of 62 years old"... All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs. I haven't seen it mentioned here but while in many cases you can as an employer outsource payroll and labor law compliance, you can never completely shed the potential liabilities that come with employing someone and this can get complicated when your workforce is based in different countries. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. Your payroll/compliance vendor could screw the pooch. Your foreign-based employee could do something negligent or malicious that leaves you in a legal bind where your costs of protecting your interests skyrocket. And your employment of an individual in certain countries could subject you to laws and taxes you never even knew about. Of course, a growing number of companies do employ remote workers around the world but it's really not as simple as "I can hire anyone in any country as long as they are talented". The world simply isn't that flat.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    In my model, you aren't hiring the worker. You are buying whatever code they write. The local firm is the one who technically employs the worker and takes on all these risks. At any point, you can stop buying more code, and the local firm will have to face the consequences.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      You're referring to what's called an "employer of record" (EOR) and this isn't as straightforward or risk-free as you think it is. First, there are some countries in which the law would consider your business to be the employer of a worker even if the worker was hired by an EOR. And others place limits on EOR relationships, such as the length of time a worker can be continuously employed by an EOR. Second, an individual you employ through an EOR can still take actions that potentially expose your business to risk. Think data breaches, intellectual property theft, etc. In many legal matters, since you are not the employer, you would not even have the ability to take direct action against the worker and would instead have to have the EOR act on your behalf, which is of course another source of counterparty risk. Finally, your relationship with the EOR is not a one-way street as you seem to think ("the local firm will have to face the consequences"). Under any EOR contract, your business has obligations to the EOR as well and a reputable EOR is actually probably far more likely than an average employee to go after you in your home country if you breach the contract. As an expat who has done business in numerous countries, I offer the following blanket advice: never do business (in any shape or form) in a country where you're not capable of and prepared to get your hands dirty locally (with the legal system, etc.).

londons_explore 5y ago

There are plenty of labor sourcing companies who will happily do all the paperwork (and take on the legal risk) for you to hire someone in a foreign country, but in fact you pay the labor company some fixed hourly rate, and they hire the worker as an employee. It's a good model, because then when the laws of the foreign country change to say "Women's average salaries must match mens" or "Workers shall be paid 2x rate on religious holidays" or "Employers shall pay extra tax for hiring people over the age of 62 years old"... All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs. I haven't seen it mentioned here but while in many cases you can as an employer outsource payroll and labor law compliance, you can never completely shed the potential liabilities that come with employing someone and this can get complicated when your workforce is based in different countries. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. Your payroll/compliance vendor could screw the pooch. Your foreign-based employee could do something negligent or malicious that leaves you in a legal bind where your costs of protecting your interests skyrocket. And your employment of an individual in certain countries could subject you to laws and taxes you never even knew about. Of course, a growing number of companies do employ remote workers around the world but it's really not as simple as "I can hire anyone in any country as long as they are talented". The world simply isn't that flat.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  In my model, you aren't hiring the worker. You are buying whatever code they write. The local firm is the one who technically employs the worker and takes on all these risks. At any point, you can stop buying more code, and the local firm will have to face the consequences.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    You're referring to what's called an "employer of record" (EOR) and this isn't as straightforward or risk-free as you think it is. First, there are some countries in which the law would consider your business to be the employer of a worker even if the worker was hired by an EOR. And others place limits on EOR relationships, such as the length of time a worker can be continuously employed by an EOR. Second, an individual you employ through an EOR can still take actions that potentially expose your business to risk. Think data breaches, intellectual property theft, etc. In many legal matters, since you are not the employer, you would not even have the ability to take direct action against the worker and would instead have to have the EOR act on your behalf, which is of course another source of counterparty risk. Finally, your relationship with the EOR is not a one-way street as you seem to think ("the local firm will have to face the consequences"). Under any EOR contract, your business has obligations to the EOR as well and a reputable EOR is actually probably far more likely than an average employee to go after you in your home country if you breach the contract. As an expat who has done business in numerous countries, I offer the following blanket advice: never do business (in any shape or form) in a country where you're not capable of and prepared to get your hands dirty locally (with the legal system, etc.).