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Don't think the article is arguing that 'broken' countries are poised to benefit here? They specifically say "political and monetary stability". The US does not

Don't think the article is arguing that 'broken' countries are poised to benefit here? They specifically say "political and monetary stability". The US does not have a monopoly on that worldwide. In terms of affordability - the US is one of the least affordable places - do you have any idea what an entry-level SE salary can get you in other countries?

bwb 5y ago
Agreed, but if you read down the list the author notes in that list Panama, Croatia, which while beautiful and stable in some ways... are also knows for corruption and other issues. The USA is very affordable if you look outside of SF/NY and compare it to Western Europe (esp with tech pay). What are you comparing it too?
- sweezyjeezy 5y ago
  It's certainly affordable with tech pay - but... that's the point of the article isn't it? Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent. Most millennials in the US cannot afford to buy a home here. Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption.
  - bwb 5y ago
    I am not sure the US is overvaluing US talent, I am undecided there... The average salary of a millenial is $47k a year, average millennial household makes $71k. The average mortgage payment in the USA is $1,487 ($18k over a year). So 25% to 38% of salary right? I think I did that right but feel free to clarify. Seems doable right? I think the USA is a mess, especially for millennials but when you look at the housing market in Europe for average salaries we are doing really well overall: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-r... Very few people immigrate from anywhere. It is very hard. I don't think people leave because of corruption, my point being they have higher levels than the USA: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl
    - valzam 5y ago
      I think it's really difficult to compare all of these statistics. Take Germany: It is very normal to rent your whole life, especially in big cities. Renter laws are very strong. House ownership is higher in rich, rural parts of the country (think south of Munich), so this skews the average house price. Also the quality floor is much higher than in the US, pushing up average prices. $20k trailer park homes simply do not exist in Germany.
  - pbaka 5y ago
    > Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption. They just announced the results of the census in Croatia this week. It lost a fifth of its population last 20 years. And oh yes, they do, throughout the whole of the Balkans. It's as much a reason to leave for most as the money. They all believe "the West" is well regulated everywhere, everything is clean, corruption doesn't exist, justice will be fair, they will see no discrimination, bosses will follow the law, etc. It's soft-power working wonders.
  - Hermitian909 5y ago
    > Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent This statement feels like it requires a lot of justification. I work for a large company, we are happy to hire out of Europe, SA, or anywhere else so long as they can work on their team's time zone. We are willing to beat basically any offer you'd imagine getting in those areas and hiring is still hard, qualified and experienced people are a rarity. When thinking about "overvaluing talent" it's worth remembering that just 5 years ago the big tech companies actively conspired to keep pay down because margins on developers making 120-150k were just insanely high[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/01/16/377614477/tech-giants-will-pay-415-million-to-settle-employees-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/01/16/37...

bwb 5y ago

Agreed, but if you read down the list the author notes in that list Panama, Croatia, which while beautiful and stable in some ways... are also knows for corruption and other issues. The USA is very affordable if you look outside of SF/NY and compare it to Western Europe (esp with tech pay). What are you comparing it too?

sweezyjeezy 5y ago
It's certainly affordable with tech pay - but... that's the point of the article isn't it? Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent. Most millennials in the US cannot afford to buy a home here. Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption.
- bwb 5y ago
  I am not sure the US is overvaluing US talent, I am undecided there... The average salary of a millenial is $47k a year, average millennial household makes $71k. The average mortgage payment in the USA is $1,487 ($18k over a year). So 25% to 38% of salary right? I think I did that right but feel free to clarify. Seems doable right? I think the USA is a mess, especially for millennials but when you look at the housing market in Europe for average salaries we are doing really well overall: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-r... Very few people immigrate from anywhere. It is very hard. I don't think people leave because of corruption, my point being they have higher levels than the USA: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl
  - valzam 5y ago
    I think it's really difficult to compare all of these statistics. Take Germany: It is very normal to rent your whole life, especially in big cities. Renter laws are very strong. House ownership is higher in rich, rural parts of the country (think south of Munich), so this skews the average house price. Also the quality floor is much higher than in the US, pushing up average prices. $20k trailer park homes simply do not exist in Germany.
- pbaka 5y ago
  > Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption. They just announced the results of the census in Croatia this week. It lost a fifth of its population last 20 years. And oh yes, they do, throughout the whole of the Balkans. It's as much a reason to leave for most as the money. They all believe "the West" is well regulated everywhere, everything is clean, corruption doesn't exist, justice will be fair, they will see no discrimination, bosses will follow the law, etc. It's soft-power working wonders.
- Hermitian909 5y ago
  > Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent This statement feels like it requires a lot of justification. I work for a large company, we are happy to hire out of Europe, SA, or anywhere else so long as they can work on their team's time zone. We are willing to beat basically any offer you'd imagine getting in those areas and hiring is still hard, qualified and experienced people are a rarity. When thinking about "overvaluing talent" it's worth remembering that just 5 years ago the big tech companies actively conspired to keep pay down because margins on developers making 120-150k were just insanely high[0]. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/01/16/377614477/tech-giants-will-pay-415-million-to-settle-employees-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/01/16/37...