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> That national ID system is what ensures electoral integrity allowing the actual technical aspects of elections to be simple safe and efficient. There is no n

> That national ID system is what ensures electoral integrity allowing the actual technical aspects of elections to be simple safe and efficient. There is no national ID system in the UK, which has elections that are simple, safe and efficient. Sure, there are sometimes recounts - if the margin of victory in the first count is very close. Third-party "ninjas" are not used for such recounts, which are generally complete by the end of the day after the ballot (they don't take months, as in Arizona). No scandal is associated with a recount - they're routine. There can be no parliamentary vote to allow or forbid a recount.

mytailorisrich 5y ago
Actually, in the UK there are debates about election safety and risks of fraud (if not alleged fraud) because there is currently no need to show any ID at the polling station: You just need to state a name and address and if that matches the electoral register you can cast a ballot...
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Indeed, there are debates. And there are proposals for a national ID. But there is no evidence of significant fraudulent voting. Each name/address pair on the register gets to vote once, because the name is struck off the register when the ballot is issued. If I pretended to be someone else to use their ballot, it would be discovered when they attempted to cast it themselves. Since about 50% of people vote, there's about a 50:50 chance that any single fraudulent vote would be detected. Fraudulent voting on a significant scale is certain to be detected; and it hasn't been. The motives for debating a national ID are therefore nothing to do with election security.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    I agree that national ID cards and having to show ID at polling stations are two different issues. But I also think that having to show an ID to vote should be a no-brainer... and IMHO the opposition to that is indeed because people think this is a Trojan horse for national ID cards.
  - forty 5y ago
    In France a strategy that was successfully used a while ago to cast extra votes undetected was to use dead people identities. Maybe something similar could be implemented in the UK, even more easily if no identity proof is required :)
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      When registering to vote, the householder has to fill in a form, giving details of all those eligible to vote. There's a limited number of slots to name a registrant; I think its 4 or 5. A crooked householder could, I suppose, register 5 dead people at his address; if he got caught, he'd be prosecuted. With 10 crooked householders, you could get 50 crooked votes. Hardly any elections turn on that few votes.
    - mytailorisrich 5y ago
      There is fraud in the UK as well, of course. Some of it because there is no ID, as said, and register is often out of date: For example when you move into a new home the local council will at some point sends you a list of people registered at your address to check it is still valid. How many times can you them vote? It is said that some houses in less than great neighbourhoods have up to 30 people registered as residents on the electoral register.... Right. That said this usually raises eyebrows and people do get caught [1] Another example, because electoral registers are independently managed by councils people can be registered in several location and thus vote several times (though it is not legal). It was admitted that some students did that to vote twice in the Brexit referendum, for instance (once at their parents', once at university). But it is downplayed because people don't want IDs and because fraud probably does not skew results (at least nationally). [1] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176591/Tory-councillor-jailed-using-ghost-voters-rig-local-election.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176591/Tory-counci...

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Actually, in the UK there are debates about election safety and risks of fraud (if not alleged fraud) because there is currently no need to show any ID at the polling station: You just need to state a name and address and if that matches the electoral register you can cast a ballot...

denton-scratch 5y ago
Indeed, there are debates. And there are proposals for a national ID. But there is no evidence of significant fraudulent voting. Each name/address pair on the register gets to vote once, because the name is struck off the register when the ballot is issued. If I pretended to be someone else to use their ballot, it would be discovered when they attempted to cast it themselves. Since about 50% of people vote, there's about a 50:50 chance that any single fraudulent vote would be detected. Fraudulent voting on a significant scale is certain to be detected; and it hasn't been. The motives for debating a national ID are therefore nothing to do with election security.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  I agree that national ID cards and having to show ID at polling stations are two different issues. But I also think that having to show an ID to vote should be a no-brainer... and IMHO the opposition to that is indeed because people think this is a Trojan horse for national ID cards.
- forty 5y ago
  In France a strategy that was successfully used a while ago to cast extra votes undetected was to use dead people identities. Maybe something similar could be implemented in the UK, even more easily if no identity proof is required :)
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    When registering to vote, the householder has to fill in a form, giving details of all those eligible to vote. There's a limited number of slots to name a registrant; I think its 4 or 5. A crooked householder could, I suppose, register 5 dead people at his address; if he got caught, he'd be prosecuted. With 10 crooked householders, you could get 50 crooked votes. Hardly any elections turn on that few votes.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    There is fraud in the UK as well, of course. Some of it because there is no ID, as said, and register is often out of date: For example when you move into a new home the local council will at some point sends you a list of people registered at your address to check it is still valid. How many times can you them vote? It is said that some houses in less than great neighbourhoods have up to 30 people registered as residents on the electoral register.... Right. That said this usually raises eyebrows and people do get caught [1] Another example, because electoral registers are independently managed by councils people can be registered in several location and thus vote several times (though it is not legal). It was admitted that some students did that to vote twice in the Brexit referendum, for instance (once at their parents', once at university). But it is downplayed because people don't want IDs and because fraud probably does not skew results (at least nationally). [1] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176591/Tory-councillor-jailed-using-ghost-voters-rig-local-election.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176591/Tory-counci...