7 ms·

Dear HP: Please Keep Making Those TouchPads

79 points by ayanb 15y ago

acabal 15y ago
I don't think people bought the TouchPads because they wanted a low-quality "couch surfing" device; they bought them because they knew it was an incredible price for the hardware, and with all the media hype happening, they had to buy them before they ran out and then figure out a use for them later. Even I was considering buying one, and I knew I would have played with it for half an hour and then never touched it again.
- macrael 15y ago
  I'm with you, I think that if the Touchpad had launched at a $99 price, it would not have flown off the shelves the way that it has these last few days. Part of the reason people are buying them is that it is their last hurrah, no Touchpads will ever be made again. There is a very real novelty factor there. On top of that, it is not just a $99 tablet, but rather a $400 savings.
  - ja27 15y ago
    Borders stores were packed during liquidation sales, despite the fact that there were few real bargains to be found. People love a perceived bargain.
ayanb 15y ago
Fire sales always have a novelty. Its not so much the price point but the innate human desire to pick up things at a price they otherwise could not have afforded or wanted to.
foobarbazetc 15y ago
WebOS is a terrible, flawed, slow as molasses OS. WebOS will never gain traction because apps on it will always be much slower than native compiled apps on iOS or even JITed apps on Android. It's that simple. No amount of buzzword compliance is going to change that. Just look at this benchmark: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4658/40733.png http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4658/40733.png The device/OS which relies on JavaScript performance for everything is the slowest when it comes to JavaScript performance. :) Even if they could 2-2.5x performance, it'd still be noticeably slower than iOS or Android. Anyone who thinks people are buying these TouchPads because they think they're a viable product is delusional at best. People are buying them because they're $99, and $99 doesn't buy you much these days.
- revorad 15y ago
  That's why I want one to test my web apps, keeping in line with yesterday's discussion - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911935 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911935. But I haven't seen any fire sales here in the UK. The cheapest I've found is for ~£160 on ebay from people who bought the $99 ones in the US.
  - danlove 15y ago
    Dixons/PC World/Curry's had one yesterday online, and in store today. Reduced to £89 I believe.
    - revorad 15y ago
      I checked online yesterday but didn't see any reduced prices. I called Curry's just now and they had a recorded message saying they've sold out. I can't believe I missed it!
      - robin_reala 15y ago
        I think I got one on Dabs earlier before they sold out (got a confirmation email but whether they had any stock is another matter). Your best bet is play.com, who haven’t lowered their prices yet but probably will.
  - julestm 15y ago
    http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/873167-hp-touchpad-prices-slashed-after-tablet-discontinued http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/873167-hp-touchpad-prices-slashe... £89 in Dixons? Haven't been able to confirm myself.
  - iaskwhy 15y ago
    Check these sites: http://www.tz10.co.uk/touchpad/ http://www.tz10.co.uk/touchpad/ I think I got one from Comet but it's hard to know even if I paid for it, demand has been huge and sites are being down seconds after they lower the price. Also, people are buying them at the normal price because they know they can return them if they don't get a refund. And since stores don't want to deal with it, everyone is very confident stores will just refund it.
fpgeek 15y ago
translation: Dear HP: Please Keep Burning Money For Our Entertainment
- rbanffy 15y ago
  With HP focusing on enterprisey software, it'll never again be as entertaining to watch. But I trust somehow reason will once more shine its light onto HP's board, that they will fire this idiot and abandon his silly idea of turning HP into SAP.
Steko 15y ago
Large amounts of unintended irony in this piece featuring tablet advice from Arrington (red flag) that amounts to "HP should sell large numbers of hardware for low margin". You mean, just like the PC business they're trying to exit? And the console business that can't shoot straight because the era of $60 apps is fading fast? Because you know, Best Buy is super excited to buy tablets from HP for just under $200 and retail them for $200 while being shut out of the app/ad/bandwidth/content ecosystem. To make an ecosystem only strategy work today I think you need to have your own distribution network and HP isn't really in a position to burn bridges with Best Buy over the rounding error that is their tablet business.
- davidedicillo 15y ago
  I agree with you, beside the Best Buy comment. They already operate with small margins for the hardware, where they make most of the money is selling you all the other crap with it, from the case for your brand new tablet to a 3 year extended warranty.
zmmmmm 15y ago
Dear Techcrunch, Android tablets will soon be sub-$200 and will come in any number of form factors, styles and configurations using an OS that actually has a chance of long term support. In fact if all you want is a web browsing device they are there already and have been for a while.
- Macha 15y ago
  Dear zmmmmm, But they are using an OS that is competing directly with Apple and are therefore bad. Even if they do everything we just said we wanted for the price we said we want. Yours, Techcrunch (especially MG Siegler).
ansy 15y ago
I think that's called Groupon. Taking billions of dollars of investor money and tying it up with no hope of making a single dime. You'll get millions of users and entrench yourself deeper and deeper in a broken business model.
SoupIce 15y ago
There is the WeTab which is in that price range with a GNU/Linux on it. MeeGo.
nl 15y ago
7" Capacitive (Android) tablets are already under $200: http://s.dealextreme.com/search/capacitive+android+tablet http://s.dealextreme.com/search/capacitive+android+tablet These aren't crappy, low powered devices, either. Take this one: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-capacitive-screen-android-2-3-tablet-pc-w-wifi-hdmi-otg-3d-acceleration-1-2ghz-4gb-72878 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-capacitive-screen-android-2-3.... It is Android 2.3, 1.2Ghz processor, HDMI out, etc etc. The only weakness is it is WiFi only, but it is only $166. There are still supply constraints around larger 9" & 10" capacitive screens, but 7" screens are getting cheap enough now that it's possible 7" capacitive tablets will drop below $100 by the end of the year (depending on the exchange rate though..)
kloncks 15y ago
It seems I'm in the minority here, but I really like what Arrington is saying. People will pay $100-$200 for a dedicated eBook reader. As much as I love my iPad, it does come with a few extra things that one doesn't necessarily need. There's room in the market for a $200 tablet from a consumer point. I have no idea if it makes sense from the manufacturer's point of view, though. That said, this recently created space [cheaper tablets] has started to be dominated by Android tablets. Can webOS find a place there? I don't know. But I think it will have a greater chance of taking on this market than the $500 range overwhelmingly handled by Apple's iPad. edit: if they go as cheap as chips and hardware + a little more, they can also have a huge impact on basic tablets used for education, etc. in my dream world, techcrunch somehow licenses webOS and makes the CrunchPad once and for all. double edit: in the comments someone suggested subsidizing the tablet device to lower its cost and making it up using app sales or a subscription. think game consoles. that would be interesting.
- mitchty 15y ago
  People may pay $100-200 for a device like that, the manufacturing reality may not allow for such a device at the moment.
  - kloncks 15y ago
    I'd like to know exactly where Arrington is coming from with the prices he has mentioned. Without providing evidence, he did say that there is a strong possibility of these devices being made at the prices he has mentioned. It would be a lower-quality product for sure and terms like a "good enough capacitive touch screen" bother me.
- andrem 15y ago
  Why will "people" pay that? I know it's cheaper than the kindle. Apart from the novelty factor though, why would anyone pay that much for a device to read books? I have a 2003 version of an actual ebook reader with a passive screen. If all you are after is an ebook reader I am sure these things would sell for $20 at the most and you could make a happy profit. What a bargain eh? The problem is that the market is not driven by people's desires, but rather by moneymakers' profits. If we can't make 25%+ on each sale, why bother?
smoody 15y ago
"But one thing I was very right on is the huge demand for a less expensive tablet computer" Arrington should be a futurist/ecomonist, not a op/ed writer -- after all, he was "very right" with this prediction! :-) But, IMHO, I think he was very wrong that Crunchpads would have flown off the shelves. Brand names matter to consumers when it comes to consumer electronics (do you hear anyone talk about the notionink Adam anymore?). You can find a $200 tablet out there if you want to, but I don't see a lot of people looking beyond the brands they already trust for a solution.
nazgulnarsil 15y ago
dumbass. http://arnovatech.com/products/arn_10/index.html?country=us&lang=en http://arnovatech.com/products/arn_10/index.html?country=us&... people's ability to refuse to do a 30 second google search before they spout crap continues to amaze me.
- clarkevans 15y ago
  I didn't realize a company was offering Android tablets, $199 for 10" and $99 for 7". That's quite cool. Thank you for posting the link.
- lhnn 15y ago
  The website doesn't help me find how to buy their product... Google shouldn't have to be a part of my journey (I can't find it for sale).
neovive 15y ago
The TouchPad will make a great economics case study for price elasticity of demand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand). I'm sure someone has already worked out a model somewhere.

79 points by ayanb 15y ago

I don't think people bought the TouchPads because they wanted a low-quality "couch surfing" device; they bought them because they knew it was an incredible price for the hardware, and with all the media hype happening, they had to buy them before they ran out and then figure out a use for them later. Even I was considering buying one, and I knew I would have played with it for half an hour and then never touched it again.

macrael 15y ago
I'm with you, I think that if the Touchpad had launched at a $99 price, it would not have flown off the shelves the way that it has these last few days. Part of the reason people are buying them is that it is their last hurrah, no Touchpads will ever be made again. There is a very real novelty factor there. On top of that, it is not just a $99 tablet, but rather a $400 savings.
- ja27 15y ago
  Borders stores were packed during liquidation sales, despite the fact that there were few real bargains to be found. People love a perceived bargain.

ayanb 15y ago

Fire sales always have a novelty. Its not so much the price point but the innate human desire to pick up things at a price they otherwise could not have afforded or wanted to.

foobarbazetc 15y ago

WebOS is a terrible, flawed, slow as molasses OS. WebOS will never gain traction because apps on it will always be much slower than native compiled apps on iOS or even JITed apps on Android. It's that simple. No amount of buzzword compliance is going to change that. Just look at this benchmark: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4658/40733.png http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4658/40733.png The device/OS which relies on JavaScript performance for everything is the slowest when it comes to JavaScript performance. :) Even if they could 2-2.5x performance, it'd still be noticeably slower than iOS or Android. Anyone who thinks people are buying these TouchPads because they think they're a viable product is delusional at best. People are buying them because they're $99, and $99 doesn't buy you much these days.

revorad 15y ago
That's why I want one to test my web apps, keeping in line with yesterday's discussion - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911935 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911935. But I haven't seen any fire sales here in the UK. The cheapest I've found is for ~£160 on ebay from people who bought the $99 ones in the US.
- danlove 15y ago
  Dixons/PC World/Curry's had one yesterday online, and in store today. Reduced to £89 I believe.
  - revorad 15y ago
    I checked online yesterday but didn't see any reduced prices. I called Curry's just now and they had a recorded message saying they've sold out. I can't believe I missed it!
    - robin_reala 15y ago
      I think I got one on Dabs earlier before they sold out (got a confirmation email but whether they had any stock is another matter). Your best bet is play.com, who haven’t lowered their prices yet but probably will.
- julestm 15y ago
  http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/873167-hp-touchpad-prices-slashed-after-tablet-discontinued http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/873167-hp-touchpad-prices-slashe... £89 in Dixons? Haven't been able to confirm myself.
- iaskwhy 15y ago
  Check these sites: http://www.tz10.co.uk/touchpad/ http://www.tz10.co.uk/touchpad/ I think I got one from Comet but it's hard to know even if I paid for it, demand has been huge and sites are being down seconds after they lower the price. Also, people are buying them at the normal price because they know they can return them if they don't get a refund. And since stores don't want to deal with it, everyone is very confident stores will just refund it.

fpgeek 15y ago

translation: Dear HP: Please Keep Burning Money For Our Entertainment

rbanffy 15y ago
With HP focusing on enterprisey software, it'll never again be as entertaining to watch. But I trust somehow reason will once more shine its light onto HP's board, that they will fire this idiot and abandon his silly idea of turning HP into SAP.

Steko 15y ago

Large amounts of unintended irony in this piece featuring tablet advice from Arrington (red flag) that amounts to "HP should sell large numbers of hardware for low margin". You mean, just like the PC business they're trying to exit? And the console business that can't shoot straight because the era of $60 apps is fading fast? Because you know, Best Buy is super excited to buy tablets from HP for just under $200 and retail them for $200 while being shut out of the app/ad/bandwidth/content ecosystem. To make an ecosystem only strategy work today I think you need to have your own distribution network and HP isn't really in a position to burn bridges with Best Buy over the rounding error that is their tablet business.

davidedicillo 15y ago
I agree with you, beside the Best Buy comment. They already operate with small margins for the hardware, where they make most of the money is selling you all the other crap with it, from the case for your brand new tablet to a 3 year extended warranty.

zmmmmm 15y ago

Dear Techcrunch, Android tablets will soon be sub-$200 and will come in any number of form factors, styles and configurations using an OS that actually has a chance of long term support. In fact if all you want is a web browsing device they are there already and have been for a while.

Macha 15y ago
Dear zmmmmm, But they are using an OS that is competing directly with Apple and are therefore bad. Even if they do everything we just said we wanted for the price we said we want. Yours, Techcrunch (especially MG Siegler).

ansy 15y ago

I think that's called Groupon. Taking billions of dollars of investor money and tying it up with no hope of making a single dime. You'll get millions of users and entrench yourself deeper and deeper in a broken business model.

SoupIce 15y ago

There is the WeTab which is in that price range with a GNU/Linux on it. MeeGo.

nl 15y ago

7" Capacitive (Android) tablets are already under $200: http://s.dealextreme.com/search/capacitive+android+tablet http://s.dealextreme.com/search/capacitive+android+tablet These aren't crappy, low powered devices, either. Take this one: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-capacitive-screen-android-2-3-tablet-pc-w-wifi-hdmi-otg-3d-acceleration-1-2ghz-4gb-72878 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-capacitive-screen-android-2-3.... It is Android 2.3, 1.2Ghz processor, HDMI out, etc etc. The only weakness is it is WiFi only, but it is only $166. There are still supply constraints around larger 9" & 10" capacitive screens, but 7" screens are getting cheap enough now that it's possible 7" capacitive tablets will drop below $100 by the end of the year (depending on the exchange rate though..)

kloncks 15y ago

It seems I'm in the minority here, but I really like what Arrington is saying. People will pay $100-$200 for a dedicated eBook reader. As much as I love my iPad, it does come with a few extra things that one doesn't necessarily need. There's room in the market for a $200 tablet from a consumer point. I have no idea if it makes sense from the manufacturer's point of view, though. That said, this recently created space [cheaper tablets] has started to be dominated by Android tablets. Can webOS find a place there? I don't know. But I think it will have a greater chance of taking on this market than the $500 range overwhelmingly handled by Apple's iPad. edit: if they go as cheap as chips and hardware + a little more, they can also have a huge impact on basic tablets used for education, etc. in my dream world, techcrunch somehow licenses webOS and makes the CrunchPad once and for all. double edit: in the comments someone suggested subsidizing the tablet device to lower its cost and making it up using app sales or a subscription. think game consoles. that would be interesting.

mitchty 15y ago
People may pay $100-200 for a device like that, the manufacturing reality may not allow for such a device at the moment.
- kloncks 15y ago
  I'd like to know exactly where Arrington is coming from with the prices he has mentioned. Without providing evidence, he did say that there is a strong possibility of these devices being made at the prices he has mentioned. It would be a lower-quality product for sure and terms like a "good enough capacitive touch screen" bother me.
andrem 15y ago
Why will "people" pay that? I know it's cheaper than the kindle. Apart from the novelty factor though, why would anyone pay that much for a device to read books? I have a 2003 version of an actual ebook reader with a passive screen. If all you are after is an ebook reader I am sure these things would sell for $20 at the most and you could make a happy profit. What a bargain eh? The problem is that the market is not driven by people's desires, but rather by moneymakers' profits. If we can't make 25%+ on each sale, why bother?

smoody 15y ago

"But one thing I was very right on is the huge demand for a less expensive tablet computer" Arrington should be a futurist/ecomonist, not a op/ed writer -- after all, he was "very right" with this prediction! :-) But, IMHO, I think he was very wrong that Crunchpads would have flown off the shelves. Brand names matter to consumers when it comes to consumer electronics (do you hear anyone talk about the notionink Adam anymore?). You can find a $200 tablet out there if you want to, but I don't see a lot of people looking beyond the brands they already trust for a solution.

nazgulnarsil 15y ago

dumbass. http://arnovatech.com/products/arn_10/index.html?country=us&lang=en http://arnovatech.com/products/arn_10/index.html?country=us&... people's ability to refuse to do a 30 second google search before they spout crap continues to amaze me.

clarkevans 15y ago
I didn't realize a company was offering Android tablets, $199 for 10" and $99 for 7". That's quite cool. Thank you for posting the link.
lhnn 15y ago
The website doesn't help me find how to buy their product... Google shouldn't have to be a part of my journey (I can't find it for sale).

neovive 15y ago

The TouchPad will make a great economics case study for price elasticity of demand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand). I'm sure someone has already worked out a model somewhere.