10 ms·
A few weeks ago there was a conversation [1] regarding the utility of signals like this, with a common opinion that they are useless. I'm very happy to see that
by Cerium 5y ago
A few weeks ago there was a conversation [1] regarding the utility of signals like this, with a common opinion that they are useless. I'm very happy to see that it worked!
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870
- DFHippie 5y agoI'm happy that it worked as well, but then there's this: > Police say the teenager told investigators that she traveled with the man through North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio. Authorities allege she had been attempting to get motorists’ attention to call 911. Apparently it didn't work very fast.
- irrational 5y agoWhat percentage of the population would have any idea what that hand signal (or any hand signal) means? Other than extremely common things like the middle finger, of course.
- klyrs 5y agoCuriously, the middle finger has been used as a duress signal by prisoners of war: http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html
- thaumasiotes 5y agoThat was prisoners in North Korea at a time of much less intercultural contact. It might still work -- in North Korea -- today, or it might not. It could not possibly work anywhere else.
- klyrs 5y agoIndeed, times have changed. The whole world consumes American media. Despite this, my brother and I were able to have coded conversations in a European hostel (where everybody spoke English fluently) using shared anecdotes (Shaka, when the walls fell). We weren't in duress, but not all is lost for people who are.
- ryanmercer 5y agoProbably not very many, I've never heard of "domestic violence hand signals".
- robbrown451 5y agoWell now you have.
- labster 5y agoAnd knowing is half the battle.
- beambot 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help > The Signal for Help was introduced by the Canadian Women's Foundation on April 14, 2020. Behavior change & language development take time.
- Jarwain 5y agoIt's weird because maybe a small percentage of people know the signal, and if the signal became Too Popular then it would lose effectiveness or otherwise be recognized by those who would cause harm
- Aunche 5y agoThat is true of the codeword calls for help. As a hand signal, this has more utility even if it's known because you can hide it from your attacker.
- quantified 5y agoEffective here because it didn’t need to be heard. So good for loud places too. ASL for “help me” would cross the TikTok culture gap.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoYour comment reminds me of a video clip I saw where someone dialed 911 and proceeded to "order a pizza," thus giving them her address. She got lucky and the dispatcher was fairly quick to figure it out and didn't hang up on her. https://youtu.be/ZJL_8kNFmTI https://youtu.be/ZJL_8kNFmTI
- gaius_baltar 5y agoI suppose it's not pure luck at all. Here in Brazil dispatchers are trained to cope with callers that appear to be trying to sneak an address in a seemly unusual call.
- jorvi 5y agoWhen I read the original post story I simultaneously thought ‘great’ and upon looking it up ‘that is far too generic a motion with the hand for a signal’.
- dathinab 5y agoBut then add: - repeating that signal - looking quite distressed and it might be useful.
- Cerium 5y agoAgreed, I think signs like this are a way of pushing someone's thought from "I wonder if they are ok?" to "They need help." In essence, it makes a situation actionable by an outsider.
- wolverine876 5y ago> 'that is far too generic a motion with the hand for a signal’ When does anyone make that hand motion? I never have in my life.
- dylan604 5y agoYou've never made a fist "wrong" for punching? Lot's of people have done this when "pretend" boxing with friends. I do it when trying to convey I'm definitely joking about "putting up dukes" in an overly comedic way.
- burkaman 5y agoThe signal is showing your open palm with the thumb tucked and then closing into a fist, not just the fist on its own. It would be a very weird motion to do unintentionally. This particular signal was also created during Covid lockdowns and was intended to be something you do to a camera, because you don't have any opportunity to see people in person and ask for help. So you raise your palm towards the camera and then close it into a fist.
- robbrown451 5y agoAnd the fact that this happens means next time it will work better, since probably 100 times more people know the signal now. (I've heard it described on the radio, and it is getting repeated everywhere on the net) I think the bigger news is that the common opinion is that TikTok is useless, and this provides a rare counterexample. :)
- mmastrac 5y agoUntil it becomes so well known that the bad actors also learn it, at which point it's no longer a secret hand signal.
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoBad actors know about 911, and folks are still sometimes able to call it to get help. Even if well known, this would be the worst case scenario. To be honest, though, it won't be so bad: There are lots of times that someone might be able to secretly make a hand signal - and those are the same times you can't exactly tie someone's hands together. (you can just take a phone away)
- wsatb 5y agoIsn't the idea here that it's subtle and easy to hide, not that it's a secret?
- robbrown451 5y agoIt can still be secretly conveyed, unless those bad actors bind the victims' hands or somehow watch them every second.
- nnf 5y agoSecrets can be kept in the open for long periods of time if the bad actors remain ignorant. Look how long thieves were breaking into Teslas without realizing they were being recorded by the built-in cameras, even though examples of this happening were common.
- 5y ago
- mrjangles 5y agoI think what confused me, and probably most other people is that they didn't realize that domestic violence situations can often turn into kidnapping / hostage situations, which is what the hand signal is actually designed for, and what it was used for in this case as well.
- wolverine876 5y ago> kidnapping / hostage situations, which is what the hand signal is actually designed for The description doesn't say that at all; it only discusses domestic violence and, if you see the signal, 'check in' with the person signaling. Presumably, if they were talking about kidnapping or hostage situations, they would suggest calling the police. https://canadianwomen.org/signal-for-help/ https://canadianwomen.org/signal-for-help/
- mrjangles 5y agoWhich is exactly why I was confused. Stories like this make the situation more clear. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/27/us/florida-woman-escape-note-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/27/us/florida-woman-escape-n...
- prox 5y agoActually learning sign language (the alphabet) is very beneficial in general, also when you are hearing. The ability to talk over large distances or when its very crowded. Takes a few days to learn at most.
- pferde 5y agoI was thinking of learning sign language, but what's stopping me is the impression that it varies across countries or regions (one of the hints is that ASL stands for "American Sign Language", I think we have something else here in Europe). I haven't put much research into this yet, though, so maybe I am mistaken.
- 5y ago
- wolverine876 5y ago> A few weeks ago there was a conversation [1] regarding the utility of signals like this, with a common opinion that they are useless. Unfortunately, typical for HN - a bit odd for a community built around innovative startups. Look at the top comment for almost every discussion, a smarter-than-thou takedown of whatever the OP says. I wish the mods would automatically move that comment to the bottom.
- scoopertrooper 5y agoIt's okay to be critical of proposed ideas. The problem with hand held signals such as this is that they're self-defeating. To be effective they must be widely understood and conspicuous. If they are well understood and conspicuous, then the attacker will punish the victim for attempting to make them. Attackers will surely see articles like this and will prevent victims from putting their hands anywhere near the glass in future.
- sam0x17 5y agoThat said, when it's generational you get interesting and good effects -- a hand signal the young people know might be enough to save a young person from an old person abducting them.
- dada78641 5y agoI don't think this signal becomes useless the moment an attacker knows about it. It's one thing to prevent your victim from speaking to anyone unattended, but it's hard to imagine there never being a moment for them to make a quick hand gesture to the outside world. At some point an attacker has to take their eyes off their victim even if for just a moment. It's true that attackers can take precautions against this, but that also makes their attack harder to carry out.
- NoahRoseWood 5y agoThe hand signal just needs to be silent, so it can be flashed secretly at strangers. In this case, it worked. The teenager was able to flash the signal at a driver without alerting her captor
- oh_sigh 5y agoMaybe it did? What if she showed 50 people the symbol across 2 states before someone recognized it? What if she just mouthed "help me" to people who saw her, which is how it was done in the good ol days.