4 ms·

Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a

Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is a potential fatality to a biker.

notacoward 5y ago
> a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is... You're leaving out an entire category of users. Not that I'm surprised, having been in many of these debates regarding the multi use path near my home. "Share the road" turns into "get off the path" rather quickly, in my experience.
parineum 5y ago
> Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? The road is dangerous for cyclists so cyclists make the sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians. Sure there's a difference in degree but that's not a justification. > And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is a potential fatality to a biker. To me, the "bad cyclist" is generally creating havoc on both the sidewalk and the street, alternating between street, sidewalk, crosswalks, alleys, etc. as it's convenient. This is really what I'm referring to when I said "especially at closing time". Those people are creating a dangerous environment for even safe drivers who may either hit them or get in an accident avoiding them. I don't often find the hobbyist biker doing things like that which are dangerous to themselves except treating stop signs like yields. I'm not nearly as concerned about the hobbyist as I am about the guy who thinks driving his ebike home from the bar is a great way to get home without drinking and driving. And that is definitely happening, especially with electric scooters.
- gpvos 5y ago
  > You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? That depends how busy the sidewalk is, and how the cyclist behaves. Conversely, I see videos of many places in North America where cycling on the road, even in dedicated cycle lanes, is a suicidal activity.
- resonantjacket5 5y ago
  > You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? > The road is dangerous for cyclists so cyclists make the sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians. Sure there's a difference in degree but that's not a justification. Have you ever tried biking on a 45/50mph road? The chance of you not being hit at the end of the day is not high. I'm not sure where else would one bike when there's such a large speed difference. And in some US cities there really are no alternative roads with lower speeds limits to bike on.
- jyounker 5y ago
  You are assuming that people using the sidewalk are doing so in a reckless manner.
- adrianN 5y ago
  Well, humans are selfish, regardless of their mode of transportation. That's why we need infrastructure (and laws) that ensures that the selfish choice is the socially beneficial one too.

notacoward 5y ago

> a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is... You're leaving out an entire category of users. Not that I'm surprised, having been in many of these debates regarding the multi use path near my home. "Share the road" turns into "get off the path" rather quickly, in my experience.

parineum 5y ago

> Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? The road is dangerous for cyclists so cyclists make the sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians. Sure there's a difference in degree but that's not a justification. > And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is a potential fatality to a biker. To me, the "bad cyclist" is generally creating havoc on both the sidewalk and the street, alternating between street, sidewalk, crosswalks, alleys, etc. as it's convenient. This is really what I'm referring to when I said "especially at closing time". Those people are creating a dangerous environment for even safe drivers who may either hit them or get in an accident avoiding them. I don't often find the hobbyist biker doing things like that which are dangerous to themselves except treating stop signs like yields. I'm not nearly as concerned about the hobbyist as I am about the guy who thinks driving his ebike home from the bar is a great way to get home without drinking and driving. And that is definitely happening, especially with electric scooters.

gpvos 5y ago
> You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? That depends how busy the sidewalk is, and how the cyclist behaves. Conversely, I see videos of many places in North America where cycling on the road, even in dedicated cycle lanes, is a suicidal activity.
resonantjacket5 5y ago
> You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? > The road is dangerous for cyclists so cyclists make the sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians. Sure there's a difference in degree but that's not a justification. Have you ever tried biking on a 45/50mph road? The chance of you not being hit at the end of the day is not high. I'm not sure where else would one bike when there's such a large speed difference. And in some US cities there really are no alternative roads with lower speeds limits to bike on.
jyounker 5y ago
You are assuming that people using the sidewalk are doing so in a reckless manner.
adrianN 5y ago
Well, humans are selfish, regardless of their mode of transportation. That's why we need infrastructure (and laws) that ensures that the selfish choice is the socially beneficial one too.