4 ms·

I can imagine a world, maybe a generation or 2 from now, where our suburbs have shrunk to a bike-accessible scale. That would really, finally, be a step in the

by ahoy 5y ago

I can imagine a world, maybe a generation or 2 from now, where our suburbs have shrunk to a bike-accessible scale. That would really, finally, be a step in the right direction.

criddell 5y ago
Self driving cars are going to fuel sprawl like never before.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I'm skeptical door-to-door self-driving will happen for the general case in the foreseeable future. But, if it does, certainly. An hour "being driven" to go into town for the evening is pretty tolerable compared to driving yourself (and even more so driving yourself back)--and would probably change the tradeoffs for a lot of people.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
I don't think it would take that long, if there were the right policies. Especially if ebikes letting you go 20 mph were the norm, most suburbs aren't so low density that you couldn't have, say, bakeries or small grocery stores within biking distance. That would often require zoning changes, in addition to adding bike paths, but it wouldn't take a whole generation to get done.
- kristjansson 5y ago
  We could have bakeries, small groceries, etc. within _walking_ distance right now, if zoning allowed them to be integrated into residential areas, and people didn't expect parking. Would that we could...
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    Depends on the surburb, I've definitely seen many where walking distance wouldn't work very well, there just flat out aren't that many people. You'll have a subdevelopment where there's 50-100 houses or whatever, and it's connected to a highway and otherwise surrounded by a bunch of green space. That's not enough people to support more than a kiosk's worth of retail, probably.
    - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
      I mean, that's really a self-reinforcing cycle. Car culture leads to car-centric development leads to car-dependent suburbs leads to more need for car infrastructure. Nothing said those suburbs had to be built that way, except that's what people expect (and whatever local zoning ordinances ear-marked the land for single-family homes).
      - TulliusCicero 5y ago
        Agreed. But nevertheless, those types of suburbs will be harder to convert to a more walkable or bike-friendly format. But yes, many others would be fairly straightforward, the only blocking issue is political will. "A bakery on my street corner makes me scared for my neighborhood character" is a surprisingly common sentiment in the states. People don't want any kind of retail whatsoever.

by ahoy 5y ago

I can imagine a world, maybe a generation or 2 from now, where our suburbs have shrunk to a bike-accessible scale. That would really, finally, be a step in the right direction.

criddell 5y ago

Self driving cars are going to fuel sprawl like never before.

ghaff 5y ago
I'm skeptical door-to-door self-driving will happen for the general case in the foreseeable future. But, if it does, certainly. An hour "being driven" to go into town for the evening is pretty tolerable compared to driving yourself (and even more so driving yourself back)--and would probably change the tradeoffs for a lot of people.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

I don't think it would take that long, if there were the right policies. Especially if ebikes letting you go 20 mph were the norm, most suburbs aren't so low density that you couldn't have, say, bakeries or small grocery stores within biking distance. That would often require zoning changes, in addition to adding bike paths, but it wouldn't take a whole generation to get done.

kristjansson 5y ago
We could have bakeries, small groceries, etc. within _walking_ distance right now, if zoning allowed them to be integrated into residential areas, and people didn't expect parking. Would that we could...
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Depends on the surburb, I've definitely seen many where walking distance wouldn't work very well, there just flat out aren't that many people. You'll have a subdevelopment where there's 50-100 houses or whatever, and it's connected to a highway and otherwise surrounded by a bunch of green space. That's not enough people to support more than a kiosk's worth of retail, probably.
  - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
    I mean, that's really a self-reinforcing cycle. Car culture leads to car-centric development leads to car-dependent suburbs leads to more need for car infrastructure. Nothing said those suburbs had to be built that way, except that's what people expect (and whatever local zoning ordinances ear-marked the land for single-family homes).
    - TulliusCicero 5y ago
      Agreed. But nevertheless, those types of suburbs will be harder to convert to a more walkable or bike-friendly format. But yes, many others would be fairly straightforward, the only blocking issue is political will. "A bakery on my street corner makes me scared for my neighborhood character" is a surprisingly common sentiment in the states. People don't want any kind of retail whatsoever.