16 ms·

Teen rescued after showing domestic violence hand signal known on TikTok

230 points by laurex 5y ago

tokai 5y ago
It's obscured in this article, but the guy that called the police have said in interviews that he didn't understand the hand sign nor understood it as a hand sign. He reacted because she looked distressed. Empathy and attentiveness saved the day, not some 'tiktok' trick.
- martin_a 5y ago
  Hm, thanks for your input, but that doesn't make such a good headline. "Aware citizen calls police when seeing stressed out teenager"... I don't think that is catchy enough. (/s)
- blub 5y ago
  The former top comment from Cerium and the others criticizing HN sure aged poorly. :-) “Grumpy HN users unfairly criticize life-saving hand sign” becomes “Insightful HN users correctly identify hand sign as worthless”. Vindication!
- PinguTS 5y ago
  But then it is not because of bad journalism but because of bad word by the police department itself[0]: "The complainant was behind the vehicle and noticed a female passenger in the vehicle making hand gestures that are known on.the social media platform "Tik Tok" to represent violence at home – I need help – domestic violence." [0]https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486545841 https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486...
  - tokai 5y ago
    >But then it is not because of bad journalism but because Did I write anything about bad journalism?
  - finite_jest 5y ago
    It is in part because of bad journalism too. Journalists are supposed to to compare multiple sources, and reconcile them to represent the reality as much as possible. But hey, this is Guardian, so why not go with the clickbaity title and ride the gimmicky TikTok trends?
- OJFord 5y ago
  So it has even less to do with TikTok than if he had, just a puff piece.
TravisHusky 5y ago
Didn't realize this was a thing, cool that it worked. As a loosely related note, there has been problems in the past where people come up with meanings for hand gestures without knowing the signed language of the region they are in, which leads to people misunderstanding something a person is signing as something completely different. Although probably not a problem in this case, just something to consider if you ever are so inclined to make a manual language. If anyone was curious in ASL this is basically "B -> M", not that that was on purpose, just a different way this could be interpreted.
- xupybd 5y ago
  My worry would be that as the signal becomes well known abusers will learn it to. Then using the signal will put people at risk.
  - notacoward 5y ago
    That is a possibility, but being able to communicate without making a sound might still be useful.
    - tudorw 5y ago
      can the 'tiktok scenius' react in real time and just instantly spread a new signal for the next person, don't underestimate how powerful that network is, has the highest quality interaction I have witnessed. more jokes than HN too
  - david_shaw 5y ago
    > My worry would be that as the signal becomes well known abusers will learn it I'm so glad that the signal worked in this case, but you're absolutely correct: the problem with clandestine signals like this is that they need to be somewhat widely known to be effective, but if they become too widely known they become ineffective and even dangerous (since the bad actor would likely know the signal and intent). I've heard stories about prevented tragedies via "code word" drink orders at bars -- maybe that tactic could be more widely applied (bars, restaurants, hotels, gas stations, etc.) Source (as an example): https://twitter.com/iizzzzzi/status/788387942242914305 https://twitter.com/iizzzzzi/status/788387942242914305
Cerium 5y ago
A few weeks ago there was a conversation [1] regarding the utility of signals like this, with a common opinion that they are useless. I'm very happy to see that it worked! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870
- DFHippie 5y ago
  I'm happy that it worked as well, but then there's this: > Police say the teenager told investigators that she traveled with the man through North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio. Authorities allege she had been attempting to get motorists’ attention to call 911. Apparently it didn't work very fast.
  - irrational 5y ago
    What percentage of the population would have any idea what that hand signal (or any hand signal) means? Other than extremely common things like the middle finger, of course.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      Curiously, the middle finger has been used as a duress signal by prisoners of war: http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        That was prisoners in North Korea at a time of much less intercultural contact. It might still work -- in North Korea -- today, or it might not. It could not possibly work anywhere else.
        klyrs 5y ago
        Indeed, times have changed. The whole world consumes American media. Despite this, my brother and I were able to have coded conversations in a European hostel (where everybody spoke English fluently) using shared anecdotes (Shaka, when the walls fell). We weren't in duress, but not all is lost for people who are.
vmception 5y ago
Time to rotate call signs and hand signals! Also, they went through like 4 states before someone noticed. And that also required that she "looked distressed". A lot of happenstance here.
branon 5y ago
The collective obsession with TikTok is very strange and cult-like. This event has nothing to do with TikTok. Hand signals are not new and any medium of communication can be used to propagate their meaning. TikTok is certainly not the only medium by which this particular hand signal has propagated, and might not be the most significant force behind its adoption. Why was TikTok mentioned so many times? Just to draw clicks on the headline?
- scollet 5y ago
  It's a popular medium among that demographic. Seems like a win to me.
- pm90 5y ago
  TikTok helped popularize the sign.
- hugs 5y ago
  TikTok is going through its "honeymoon" period of positive press coverage. ("TikTok saves lives!") Glowing coverage of Google and Apple was like this in the early 2000s. Give it 10 years or so when the pendulum will swing the other way, and you'll be wondering why all the coverage of TikTok is so negative.
  - NoPicklez 5y ago
    It wasnt that long ago that almost all press coverage of TikTok was negative. As it was pointing to China using it to "hack" our mobile phones and steal our data through the intrusive permissions it supposedly uses. Given that the press didn't do much to sway people's opinions its now being reported on based on the content it provides rather than the platform itself.
- burkaman 5y ago
  It is mentioned because it was in the police report: https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486545841 https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486... Can't say for sure, but I'm guessing the police included that because either the 911 caller or victim (or both) said they learned the gesture from TikTok.
OJFord 5y ago
What's the origin of this signal then? It starts off making it sound like some sort if TikTok craze/in-joke, but then the Louisiana police & The Guardian seem to be bulleting explainers on how to use it as a sort of public awareness.
- taurath 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help
- PinguTS 5y ago
  If you take the time to read the article in its full, then you will know.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    'If you take the time to' not assume the worst in people, you might think I just missed it (or even that the article was updated!) - reading again I see it is 'believed to have been' introduced by the Canadian Women's Foundation. Not mentioned until the penultimate paragraph, after having described it as 'known on TikTok', and sharing the police's awareness tweet on it. I was partly confused on first reading because having misread the title I thought the signal was made and recognised on a TikTok video. Whereas actually - especially since it's a more widely known (apparently) signal, introduced by the Canadian Women's Foundation - this story has nothing to do with TikTok or social media whatsoever.
tomp 5y ago
Looks like a kidnapping situation, why does it have to do anything with domestic violence? The main problem with domestic violence, and why it's an unsolvable issue, is that the victim does not want to leave (probably because of sunk costs or similar). If someone is prevented from leaving, it's kidnapping.
paunthony 5y ago
What if, instead, the teen will shout for help if the hand signal doesn't work. It would not work all the time.

230 points by laurex 5y ago

It's obscured in this article, but the guy that called the police have said in interviews that he didn't understand the hand sign nor understood it as a hand sign. He reacted because she looked distressed. Empathy and attentiveness saved the day, not some 'tiktok' trick.

martin_a 5y ago
Hm, thanks for your input, but that doesn't make such a good headline. "Aware citizen calls police when seeing stressed out teenager"... I don't think that is catchy enough. (/s)
blub 5y ago
The former top comment from Cerium and the others criticizing HN sure aged poorly. :-) “Grumpy HN users unfairly criticize life-saving hand sign” becomes “Insightful HN users correctly identify hand sign as worthless”. Vindication!
PinguTS 5y ago
But then it is not because of bad journalism but because of bad word by the police department itself[0]: "The complainant was behind the vehicle and noticed a female passenger in the vehicle making hand gestures that are known on.the social media platform "Tik Tok" to represent violence at home – I need help – domestic violence." [0]https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486545841 https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486...
- tokai 5y ago
  >But then it is not because of bad journalism but because Did I write anything about bad journalism?
- finite_jest 5y ago
  It is in part because of bad journalism too. Journalists are supposed to to compare multiple sources, and reconcile them to represent the reality as much as possible. But hey, this is Guardian, so why not go with the clickbaity title and ride the gimmicky TikTok trends?
OJFord 5y ago
So it has even less to do with TikTok than if he had, just a puff piece.

TravisHusky 5y ago

Didn't realize this was a thing, cool that it worked. As a loosely related note, there has been problems in the past where people come up with meanings for hand gestures without knowing the signed language of the region they are in, which leads to people misunderstanding something a person is signing as something completely different. Although probably not a problem in this case, just something to consider if you ever are so inclined to make a manual language. If anyone was curious in ASL this is basically "B -> M", not that that was on purpose, just a different way this could be interpreted.

xupybd 5y ago
My worry would be that as the signal becomes well known abusers will learn it to. Then using the signal will put people at risk.
- notacoward 5y ago
  That is a possibility, but being able to communicate without making a sound might still be useful.
  - tudorw 5y ago
    can the 'tiktok scenius' react in real time and just instantly spread a new signal for the next person, don't underestimate how powerful that network is, has the highest quality interaction I have witnessed. more jokes than HN too
- david_shaw 5y ago
  > My worry would be that as the signal becomes well known abusers will learn it I'm so glad that the signal worked in this case, but you're absolutely correct: the problem with clandestine signals like this is that they need to be somewhat widely known to be effective, but if they become too widely known they become ineffective and even dangerous (since the bad actor would likely know the signal and intent). I've heard stories about prevented tragedies via "code word" drink orders at bars -- maybe that tactic could be more widely applied (bars, restaurants, hotels, gas stations, etc.) Source (as an example): https://twitter.com/iizzzzzi/status/788387942242914305 https://twitter.com/iizzzzzi/status/788387942242914305

Cerium 5y ago

A few weeks ago there was a conversation [1] regarding the utility of signals like this, with a common opinion that they are useless. I'm very happy to see that it worked! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28977870

DFHippie 5y ago
I'm happy that it worked as well, but then there's this: > Police say the teenager told investigators that she traveled with the man through North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio. Authorities allege she had been attempting to get motorists’ attention to call 911. Apparently it didn't work very fast.
- irrational 5y ago
  What percentage of the population would have any idea what that hand signal (or any hand signal) means? Other than extremely common things like the middle finger, of course.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Curiously, the middle finger has been used as a duress signal by prisoners of war: http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      That was prisoners in North Korea at a time of much less intercultural contact. It might still work -- in North Korea -- today, or it might not. It could not possibly work anywhere else.
      - klyrs 5y ago
        Indeed, times have changed. The whole world consumes American media. Despite this, my brother and I were able to have coded conversations in a European hostel (where everybody spoke English fluently) using shared anecdotes (Shaka, when the walls fell). We weren't in duress, but not all is lost for people who are.

vmception 5y ago

Time to rotate call signs and hand signals! Also, they went through like 4 states before someone noticed. And that also required that she "looked distressed". A lot of happenstance here.

branon 5y ago

The collective obsession with TikTok is very strange and cult-like. This event has nothing to do with TikTok. Hand signals are not new and any medium of communication can be used to propagate their meaning. TikTok is certainly not the only medium by which this particular hand signal has propagated, and might not be the most significant force behind its adoption. Why was TikTok mentioned so many times? Just to draw clicks on the headline?

scollet 5y ago
It's a popular medium among that demographic. Seems like a win to me.
pm90 5y ago
TikTok helped popularize the sign.
hugs 5y ago
TikTok is going through its "honeymoon" period of positive press coverage. ("TikTok saves lives!") Glowing coverage of Google and Apple was like this in the early 2000s. Give it 10 years or so when the pendulum will swing the other way, and you'll be wondering why all the coverage of TikTok is so negative.
- NoPicklez 5y ago
  It wasnt that long ago that almost all press coverage of TikTok was negative. As it was pointing to China using it to "hack" our mobile phones and steal our data through the intrusive permissions it supposedly uses. Given that the press didn't do much to sway people's opinions its now being reported on based on the content it provides rather than the platform itself.
burkaman 5y ago
It is mentioned because it was in the police report: https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486545841 https://www.facebook.com/laurelcountysheriff/posts/256143486... Can't say for sure, but I'm guessing the police included that because either the 911 caller or victim (or both) said they learned the gesture from TikTok.

OJFord 5y ago

What's the origin of this signal then? It starts off making it sound like some sort if TikTok craze/in-joke, but then the Louisiana police & The Guardian seem to be bulleting explainers on how to use it as a sort of public awareness.

taurath 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_for_Help
PinguTS 5y ago
If you take the time to read the article in its full, then you will know.
- OJFord 5y ago
  'If you take the time to' not assume the worst in people, you might think I just missed it (or even that the article was updated!) - reading again I see it is 'believed to have been' introduced by the Canadian Women's Foundation. Not mentioned until the penultimate paragraph, after having described it as 'known on TikTok', and sharing the police's awareness tweet on it. I was partly confused on first reading because having misread the title I thought the signal was made and recognised on a TikTok video. Whereas actually - especially since it's a more widely known (apparently) signal, introduced by the Canadian Women's Foundation - this story has nothing to do with TikTok or social media whatsoever.

tomp 5y ago

Looks like a kidnapping situation, why does it have to do anything with domestic violence? The main problem with domestic violence, and why it's an unsolvable issue, is that the victim does not want to leave (probably because of sunk costs or similar). If someone is prevented from leaving, it's kidnapping.

paunthony 5y ago

What if, instead, the teen will shout for help if the hand signal doesn't work. It would not work all the time.