5 ms·

The Toxic Effects of Branding Your Workplace a “Family”

60 points by Krontab 5y ago

Slow_Hand 5y ago
Can we dial back the usage of the toxic in this context? It feels overused and hyperbolic, given the context. Perhaps instead a word like “harmful” or “undexpected” or “unwanted”?
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I generally agree that “toxic” is over used, but here it seems warranted. How else would you describe an attempt to co-opt the emotional processes of family building in order to make workers more loyal to you, especially when that loyalty is transparently asymmetrical? Perhaps I’d be inclined to specifically call it manipulative and deceitful, but “toxic” is much more succinct and not incorrect.
- max002 5y ago
  It is toxic, perfect name for it.
- bigodbiel 5y ago
  Much like a cult is “toxic”, this is the exact behavior that it attempted at “family” corporate cultures.
- dnissley 5y ago
  Pernicious?
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    A criminally underused word, in my opinion. Fun to say too.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
max002 5y ago
It is toxic, ive been workong in such company and it was just shit (probably for every introvert). The family sales people were getting low base wages and not great comissions. Programmers (like me) were good. The points family oriented programmers were given more time and chances. Lets skip that those devs had really low skills (apart of php and js). I think its as well just disgusting to ppl who dont have family. it tries to give this false idea of security, but just try to have different opinion than "familly" and you're out of favours. In shortcut i believe its very manipulative way to pay lower wages and artificially increase motivation. At work im working, not looking for family or friends. People lile to belong to a group (natural) and the idea of "family" company is just abusing that rule. So next time you hear on interview "we're like familly in here" then simply run, run, run. Unless of course you consciously choose yo validate your needs with this fake bs.
short12 5y ago
I would just assume that someone who calls their coworkers family are simply part of an organized crime group
Barrin92 5y ago
>"Relationships between employees and employers are temporary in nature, and at some point, have to come to an end. So to liken the relationship to a family creates an allusion that the bond will last indefinitely." Here in Germany a lot of the time this isn't a metaphor, a lot of business is literally multigenerational family owned and operated. (i.e. the so called Mittelstand). In these firms people generally start as apprentices, are often employed for life and nowadays sometimes even take over the business given our demographics. So I think it's valuable to make a distinction between some corporate branding and the actual thing, which is very much real, and in my opinion a great way to work. I would always take a real family culture over contractual and legalistic work environment. I also think the articles questioning of familial loyalty as a value is very emblematic of this sterile management mindset. There's nothing wrong with being a partisan for your own company, all startups essentially work this way. A lot of early game studios in particular wouldn't have been possible without people being fiercely passionate and invested in what they do in slightly crazy ways.
- max002 5y ago
  So youre saying lets say me as a programmer, loosing my both hands (car crash OuTside of work) or whatever that would prevent me from working indefinitely i can count on that company to take care of me and my needs until end of my life like a good familly would? But a decent one, not minimum of social or money from insurance. Or if i need 3 years off/break because i need to think about my life (lol) theyre gonna welcome it and still pay me? Youre speaking about working for someone for life hoping that you'll get apprieciated and get a piece of cake. Or boss of your "famillial" values company is so loyal to you that if he gets 10 mil extra more he'll split it evenly according to workload everyone in company put in to get to that place? I truly doubt it. For sure there are exceptions, but in 19 out of 20 cases the head of "family company" would put 9 mil in "family" pocket and spread 1 mil... If they would. Probably you would get some generous bonus, but thats it. Lets not be naive. Family is family, it should be unconditional love, i dont see that working in any company. Btw. Startups are well known to pay lower and give you options for future stocks... And let me know which multigenerettional company would let you take over their business... Considering theres a lot of heirs to get them or the company is big enough to be publicly traded. Bulding effective team yes, tribe culture (wouldnt pass for me, but ok) yes, but not family. Companies are there to make money and owner takes the most because they (usually) take the biggest risk. If youre extrovert then what you wrote can work for you, but thats it. It will not work for any introvert, because we rarely look for "family" at work. Game studios... Well known for crunch time, over hours and a lot of promises... I know a lot of devs who says its like working on assembly line, no thank you unless its extremely well paid or interestong... Check it, in stackoverflow yearly stats the game devs are least happy/optimistoc about their work and future. But theres no need for that "family" style :)
musicale 5y ago
> Numerous examples and research show that overly loyal people are more likely to participate in unethical acts to keep their jobs and are also more likely to be exploited by their employer. This is presumably why companies would wish to imitate organized crime families.
vfulco2 5y ago
Finally, finally, the insanity is being addressed. And businesses should stop using "love"...employees don't love meetings, "mondays", standups, staff birthday parties, offsites which steal away real family time, etc.
srvmshr 5y ago
There is a reason to call it workplace. Its meant for professionalism. Families expect cohesion without guarantees, put down as T&C. We make sacrifices selflessly or put in our energy without expectations for people we call our own. The organization structures are different. Families are born out of blood relationship and emotional bonding. Office organization always evolves - people come and go, often minus hard feelings & get promoted also. Families are organic without changes - I can't expect to become a granddad from being a dad, by doing some exemplary act. As a matter of rule, I don't add my workplace people on social media. There has to be some insularity for long term sanity. Work cannot replace family, and family shouldn't encroach work time. Division of time & mental space is as important as division of labor.

60 points by Krontab 5y ago

Can we dial back the usage of the toxic in this context? It feels overused and hyperbolic, given the context. Perhaps instead a word like “harmful” or “undexpected” or “unwanted”?

ashtonkem 5y ago
I generally agree that “toxic” is over used, but here it seems warranted. How else would you describe an attempt to co-opt the emotional processes of family building in order to make workers more loyal to you, especially when that loyalty is transparently asymmetrical? Perhaps I’d be inclined to specifically call it manipulative and deceitful, but “toxic” is much more succinct and not incorrect.
max002 5y ago
It is toxic, perfect name for it.
bigodbiel 5y ago
Much like a cult is “toxic”, this is the exact behavior that it attempted at “family” corporate cultures.
dnissley 5y ago
Pernicious?
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  A criminally underused word, in my opinion. Fun to say too.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

max002 5y ago

It is toxic, ive been workong in such company and it was just shit (probably for every introvert). The family sales people were getting low base wages and not great comissions. Programmers (like me) were good. The points family oriented programmers were given more time and chances. Lets skip that those devs had really low skills (apart of php and js). I think its as well just disgusting to ppl who dont have family. it tries to give this false idea of security, but just try to have different opinion than "familly" and you're out of favours. In shortcut i believe its very manipulative way to pay lower wages and artificially increase motivation. At work im working, not looking for family or friends. People lile to belong to a group (natural) and the idea of "family" company is just abusing that rule. So next time you hear on interview "we're like familly in here" then simply run, run, run. Unless of course you consciously choose yo validate your needs with this fake bs.

short12 5y ago

I would just assume that someone who calls their coworkers family are simply part of an organized crime group

Barrin92 5y ago

>"Relationships between employees and employers are temporary in nature, and at some point, have to come to an end. So to liken the relationship to a family creates an allusion that the bond will last indefinitely." Here in Germany a lot of the time this isn't a metaphor, a lot of business is literally multigenerational family owned and operated. (i.e. the so called Mittelstand). In these firms people generally start as apprentices, are often employed for life and nowadays sometimes even take over the business given our demographics. So I think it's valuable to make a distinction between some corporate branding and the actual thing, which is very much real, and in my opinion a great way to work. I would always take a real family culture over contractual and legalistic work environment. I also think the articles questioning of familial loyalty as a value is very emblematic of this sterile management mindset. There's nothing wrong with being a partisan for your own company, all startups essentially work this way. A lot of early game studios in particular wouldn't have been possible without people being fiercely passionate and invested in what they do in slightly crazy ways.

max002 5y ago
So youre saying lets say me as a programmer, loosing my both hands (car crash OuTside of work) or whatever that would prevent me from working indefinitely i can count on that company to take care of me and my needs until end of my life like a good familly would? But a decent one, not minimum of social or money from insurance. Or if i need 3 years off/break because i need to think about my life (lol) theyre gonna welcome it and still pay me? Youre speaking about working for someone for life hoping that you'll get apprieciated and get a piece of cake. Or boss of your "famillial" values company is so loyal to you that if he gets 10 mil extra more he'll split it evenly according to workload everyone in company put in to get to that place? I truly doubt it. For sure there are exceptions, but in 19 out of 20 cases the head of "family company" would put 9 mil in "family" pocket and spread 1 mil... If they would. Probably you would get some generous bonus, but thats it. Lets not be naive. Family is family, it should be unconditional love, i dont see that working in any company. Btw. Startups are well known to pay lower and give you options for future stocks... And let me know which multigenerettional company would let you take over their business... Considering theres a lot of heirs to get them or the company is big enough to be publicly traded. Bulding effective team yes, tribe culture (wouldnt pass for me, but ok) yes, but not family. Companies are there to make money and owner takes the most because they (usually) take the biggest risk. If youre extrovert then what you wrote can work for you, but thats it. It will not work for any introvert, because we rarely look for "family" at work. Game studios... Well known for crunch time, over hours and a lot of promises... I know a lot of devs who says its like working on assembly line, no thank you unless its extremely well paid or interestong... Check it, in stackoverflow yearly stats the game devs are least happy/optimistoc about their work and future. But theres no need for that "family" style :)

musicale 5y ago

> Numerous examples and research show that overly loyal people are more likely to participate in unethical acts to keep their jobs and are also more likely to be exploited by their employer. This is presumably why companies would wish to imitate organized crime families.

vfulco2 5y ago

Finally, finally, the insanity is being addressed. And businesses should stop using "love"...employees don't love meetings, "mondays", standups, staff birthday parties, offsites which steal away real family time, etc.

srvmshr 5y ago

There is a reason to call it workplace. Its meant for professionalism. Families expect cohesion without guarantees, put down as T&C. We make sacrifices selflessly or put in our energy without expectations for people we call our own. The organization structures are different. Families are born out of blood relationship and emotional bonding. Office organization always evolves - people come and go, often minus hard feelings & get promoted also. Families are organic without changes - I can't expect to become a granddad from being a dad, by doing some exemplary act. As a matter of rule, I don't add my workplace people on social media. There has to be some insularity for long term sanity. Work cannot replace family, and family shouldn't encroach work time. Division of time & mental space is as important as division of labor.