5 ms·

>The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations. While that's certainly possible, it does

>The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations. While that's certainly possible, it doesn't need to be a launching point for anything. It can just be an offhand remark, a chuckle and a reply and off you go. Not every interaction needs to have some sort of agenda or goal associated with it. At least that's how I see it.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
The "launching point" is often the scary part. If I knew that every remark from a stranger was just a remark and I could say thanks and move on with my life I'd feel much better. Instead it's a tightrope walk. You have to be appreciative but not too appreciative, you need to be disinterested but not too disinterested. Sometimes it doesn't matter and you lose anyway. Appear too appreciative and you're hounded by someone (or worse, I've had friends that have been followed)... look too disinterested and you've earned their ire. I will note that this is largely a problem of male strangers talking to women (it's not universal of course, I've personally witnessed these issues across all varieties of people).
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >The "launching point" is often the scary part. If I knew that every remark from a stranger was just a remark and I could say thanks and move on with my life I'd feel much better. >Instead it's a tightrope walk. You have to be appreciative but not too appreciative, you need to be disinterested but not too disinterested. Sometimes it doesn't matter and you lose anyway. You don't have to do anything. A polite nod and walking away isn't bad, but not even that is required. >Appear too appreciative and you're hounded by someone (or worse, I've had friends that have been followed)... look too disinterested and you've earned their ire. Well, yes, there are crazies out there, and it's probably best to stay away from them. But IME, those folks are few and far between. >I will note that this is largely a problem of male strangers talking to women (it's not universal of course, I've personally witnessed these issues across all varieties of people). Yes. That's definitely a problem. And one that pisses me off a great deal. But that's not a problem with small talk, that's a problem with entitled assholes and the aforementioned crazies. That's not about small talk though. That's about power and, sadly, that's always been, and likely always will be, a problem. And women have had to come up with a variety of ways to deal with this. Whether it's to ignore the person and walk away or politely (or not so politely) decline to continue the interaction. Until every human is well-adjusted and relatively sane (meaning never), that will be an issue. You appear to be arguing that because a small group of jerks make interaction occasionally uncomfortable, no one should ever interact with anyone. That seems a little extreme to me. Note that I'm not telling you (or anyone else) what to do or not do. Edit: clarified my prose.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jnaddef 5y ago
    This exchange is a very good illustration of what happened with the #metoo movement: a woman explains the toll that street harassment has on their life, and a man that has never experienced that brushes it off with a #notallmen. While I agree that having small talk with strangers once in a while could be very healthy, I also try to remember that a woman has to unwillingly interact tens of times a day with male strangers just by walking in the street, sometimes with very scary outcomes, and being like "yeah but I am different" is not an appropriate response.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      I don't, as you put it, "brush it off" at all. What, exactly, do you suggest I do about it? That's not a rhetorical question. I have no control over the "crazies" or the "Entitled assholes." I only have control over my actions. So please, do tell. What is it I'm supposed to do other than treat those around me with courtesy and respect?
      - jnaddef 5y ago
        You say that you don't brush it off at all, but just before you said "But IME, those folks are few and far between.". Your experience does not really matter here if you are not a woman that experiences that type of harassment. What the person you were replying to was trying to tell you is not that the problem are men who start the conversation with "hey pretty girl, can you sit on my face?", but rather people who start with a polite conversation, and if they feel they are met with a warm reaction think it opens the door to more. It might be only a small percentage of guys who follow up with inappropriate actions, but when as a woman you get 20+ men a day starting to make small talk with you, you end up with a high probability of having at least some of them being weirdos. On the other hand if the woman answers coldly to the small talk tentative, some people may take it in a bad way. The line you have to walk to not appear too warm to weirdos and not too cold to easily offended people is very thin. If you can't understand that under these circumstances some women become anxious at the idea of men starting small talk with them, well that's too bad. As for what you can do, maybe start with asking women you know how they feel about it. Maybe they are all fine with it. It is also very dependent of where you live. If you live in a dense city women get harassed way more often than in a suburb area, it's kind of a number problem.
ipdashc 5y ago
I agree completely. Continuing the conversation, and using it as a launching point for something substantial, is a reasonable reaction. Stopping the conversation with a friendly dismissal, a "chuckle and a reply and off you go" as you said, is a reasonable reaction. Reacting rudely and thinking "who are you, why are you subjecting me to the labor and chore of talking to you?" is not a reasonable reaction.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >Stopping the conversation with a friendly dismissal, a as you said, is a reasonable reaction. To clarify, I didn't mean that "chuckle and a reply and off you go" was the means to extricate oneself from such a situation although, as you said, it's a reasonable thing to do. I meant that an "offhand remark, a chuckle and a reply and off you go" was the whole point of such an interaction -- not some sort of prelude to something beyond that.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

The "launching point" is often the scary part. If I knew that every remark from a stranger was just a remark and I could say thanks and move on with my life I'd feel much better. Instead it's a tightrope walk. You have to be appreciative but not too appreciative, you need to be disinterested but not too disinterested. Sometimes it doesn't matter and you lose anyway. Appear too appreciative and you're hounded by someone (or worse, I've had friends that have been followed)... look too disinterested and you've earned their ire. I will note that this is largely a problem of male strangers talking to women (it's not universal of course, I've personally witnessed these issues across all varieties of people).

nobody9999 5y ago
>The "launching point" is often the scary part. If I knew that every remark from a stranger was just a remark and I could say thanks and move on with my life I'd feel much better. >Instead it's a tightrope walk. You have to be appreciative but not too appreciative, you need to be disinterested but not too disinterested. Sometimes it doesn't matter and you lose anyway. You don't have to do anything. A polite nod and walking away isn't bad, but not even that is required. >Appear too appreciative and you're hounded by someone (or worse, I've had friends that have been followed)... look too disinterested and you've earned their ire. Well, yes, there are crazies out there, and it's probably best to stay away from them. But IME, those folks are few and far between. >I will note that this is largely a problem of male strangers talking to women (it's not universal of course, I've personally witnessed these issues across all varieties of people). Yes. That's definitely a problem. And one that pisses me off a great deal. But that's not a problem with small talk, that's a problem with entitled assholes and the aforementioned crazies. That's not about small talk though. That's about power and, sadly, that's always been, and likely always will be, a problem. And women have had to come up with a variety of ways to deal with this. Whether it's to ignore the person and walk away or politely (or not so politely) decline to continue the interaction. Until every human is well-adjusted and relatively sane (meaning never), that will be an issue. You appear to be arguing that because a small group of jerks make interaction occasionally uncomfortable, no one should ever interact with anyone. That seems a little extreme to me. Note that I'm not telling you (or anyone else) what to do or not do. Edit: clarified my prose.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jnaddef 5y ago
  This exchange is a very good illustration of what happened with the #metoo movement: a woman explains the toll that street harassment has on their life, and a man that has never experienced that brushes it off with a #notallmen. While I agree that having small talk with strangers once in a while could be very healthy, I also try to remember that a woman has to unwillingly interact tens of times a day with male strangers just by walking in the street, sometimes with very scary outcomes, and being like "yeah but I am different" is not an appropriate response.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    I don't, as you put it, "brush it off" at all. What, exactly, do you suggest I do about it? That's not a rhetorical question. I have no control over the "crazies" or the "Entitled assholes." I only have control over my actions. So please, do tell. What is it I'm supposed to do other than treat those around me with courtesy and respect?
    - jnaddef 5y ago
      You say that you don't brush it off at all, but just before you said "But IME, those folks are few and far between.". Your experience does not really matter here if you are not a woman that experiences that type of harassment. What the person you were replying to was trying to tell you is not that the problem are men who start the conversation with "hey pretty girl, can you sit on my face?", but rather people who start with a polite conversation, and if they feel they are met with a warm reaction think it opens the door to more. It might be only a small percentage of guys who follow up with inappropriate actions, but when as a woman you get 20+ men a day starting to make small talk with you, you end up with a high probability of having at least some of them being weirdos. On the other hand if the woman answers coldly to the small talk tentative, some people may take it in a bad way. The line you have to walk to not appear too warm to weirdos and not too cold to easily offended people is very thin. If you can't understand that under these circumstances some women become anxious at the idea of men starting small talk with them, well that's too bad. As for what you can do, maybe start with asking women you know how they feel about it. Maybe they are all fine with it. It is also very dependent of where you live. If you live in a dense city women get harassed way more often than in a suburb area, it's kind of a number problem.

ipdashc 5y ago

I agree completely. Continuing the conversation, and using it as a launching point for something substantial, is a reasonable reaction. Stopping the conversation with a friendly dismissal, a "chuckle and a reply and off you go" as you said, is a reasonable reaction. Reacting rudely and thinking "who are you, why are you subjecting me to the labor and chore of talking to you?" is not a reasonable reaction.

nobody9999 5y ago
>Stopping the conversation with a friendly dismissal, a as you said, is a reasonable reaction. To clarify, I didn't mean that "chuckle and a reply and off you go" was the means to extricate oneself from such a situation although, as you said, it's a reasonable thing to do. I meant that an "offhand remark, a chuckle and a reply and off you go" was the whole point of such an interaction -- not some sort of prelude to something beyond that.