3 ms·

True. I’m probably paying 60% of my income in tax living in Amsterdam. I could easily relocate to somewhere like Chicago or Austin, and pay way less and have ch

True. I’m probably paying 60% of my income in tax living in Amsterdam. I could easily relocate to somewhere like Chicago or Austin, and pay way less and have cheaper living expenses, but I’ve seen enough of American cities to know I find their wealth divide so cruel I personally consider it a crime against humanity. It’s just plain depressing to live in a society like that.

whimsicalism 5y ago
The crime being the existence of poor people? Europe is way worse on these fronts, they just hide their poor people better and put them in the suburbs.
- dsomers 5y ago
  Where have you been in Europe or the US? I have family on both sides of the Atlantic and know both continents quite well from personal experiences. The crime is letting people die from preventable illness because of unwillingness to provide universal healthcare, and a segregated system that makes higher education difficult to attain and keeps poor people in poverty. On your second point I wholeheartedly disagree, I’ve been in small villages in Serbia, and I know people from there very well. I also grew up 10 minutes from the Michigan boarder and have friends and family there too. From my experience, the poorest people in Serbia are less at risk of abject poverty and dying from preventable diseases than the poorest in Michigan. Sure if you look at the average salary for someone in Michigan vs someone in Serbia, Serbia is way lower, but if you actually look at quality of life factors for the bottom 10% of both those places I’d bet Serbia pulls way ahead. Edit: and I just use Serbia as an example because it’s one of the poorest countries in Europe and I still think it’s better than a lot of US states in how it helps its poor. When you look at health, safety, and educational outcomes of middle income and rich European countries they are often far ahead of the US averages. Christ, not everything is about maximizing GDP. Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue") The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries. > Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen. Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous! You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US. The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like: https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-temp-agencies-agreed-weed-out-non-white-workers-1637191 https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t... or https://www.connexionfrance.com/Archive/Clubs-accused-of-racism-at-door https://www.connexionfrance.com/Archive/Clubs-accused-of-rac... are something unimaginable in the West outside of Europe.
    - dsomers 5y ago
      > I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue") I’ve been there, thanks, and it’s not nearly as bad as the poor parts of Chicago or Detroit where I’ve also been. You’re completely detached from reality if you think otherwise. Have you even actually been to a poor area of a large America city? You’re also about 10x more likely to be murdered in those cities than in Paris. > The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries. Bullshit, there are basically zero first generation immigrants in Detroit. All Americans pretty much. Unless you don’t consider oppressed grandchildren of slaves as Americans?! >> Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen. Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous! Fair, I was more thinking Italy specifically because I’m half Italian, but the average European still lives three years longer than the average America, which is pathetic considering the wealth in America. > You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US. If you’re selective about data like that, I can be selective about data too, and show you how black and brown oppressed communities in America have way worse social outcomes than the average American. What you’re saying about Europe is no different in America, it’s actually more extreme in America and more violent because of lax gun control. > The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like: https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t... Yeah, you’ve definitely never worked in a major midwestern city, because stuff like this still happens all the time, the racist have learned to just not be blatant about it. All you have to do is look at the C level executives at most American companies to see it. I’ve seen it first hand when I’ve tried to hire non white people in Canada and it was a battle for me. I have no idea why you think this is exclusive to France. I get that Bay Area companies are sometime more progressive, but companies in cities like Huston or Chicago, not so much, there’re still plenty of racists.
exporectomy 5y ago
You don't want to live in a city with poor people because it's cruel to have rich and poor living near each other? It kind of is because relative poverty makes people feel worse, but you'll surely bring useful tax money with you too.

whimsicalism 5y ago

The crime being the existence of poor people? Europe is way worse on these fronts, they just hide their poor people better and put them in the suburbs.

dsomers 5y ago
Where have you been in Europe or the US? I have family on both sides of the Atlantic and know both continents quite well from personal experiences. The crime is letting people die from preventable illness because of unwillingness to provide universal healthcare, and a segregated system that makes higher education difficult to attain and keeps poor people in poverty. On your second point I wholeheartedly disagree, I’ve been in small villages in Serbia, and I know people from there very well. I also grew up 10 minutes from the Michigan boarder and have friends and family there too. From my experience, the poorest people in Serbia are less at risk of abject poverty and dying from preventable diseases than the poorest in Michigan. Sure if you look at the average salary for someone in Michigan vs someone in Serbia, Serbia is way lower, but if you actually look at quality of life factors for the bottom 10% of both those places I’d bet Serbia pulls way ahead. Edit: and I just use Serbia as an example because it’s one of the poorest countries in Europe and I still think it’s better than a lot of US states in how it helps its poor. When you look at health, safety, and educational outcomes of middle income and rich European countries they are often far ahead of the US averages. Christ, not everything is about maximizing GDP. Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue") The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries. > Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen. Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous! You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US. The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like: https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-temp-agencies-agreed-weed-out-non-white-workers-1637191 https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t... or https://www.connexionfrance.com/Archive/Clubs-accused-of-racism-at-door https://www.connexionfrance.com/Archive/Clubs-accused-of-rac... are something unimaginable in the West outside of Europe.
  - dsomers 5y ago
    > I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue") I’ve been there, thanks, and it’s not nearly as bad as the poor parts of Chicago or Detroit where I’ve also been. You’re completely detached from reality if you think otherwise. Have you even actually been to a poor area of a large America city? You’re also about 10x more likely to be murdered in those cities than in Paris. > The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries. Bullshit, there are basically zero first generation immigrants in Detroit. All Americans pretty much. Unless you don’t consider oppressed grandchildren of slaves as Americans?! >> Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen. Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous! Fair, I was more thinking Italy specifically because I’m half Italian, but the average European still lives three years longer than the average America, which is pathetic considering the wealth in America. > You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US. If you’re selective about data like that, I can be selective about data too, and show you how black and brown oppressed communities in America have way worse social outcomes than the average American. What you’re saying about Europe is no different in America, it’s actually more extreme in America and more violent because of lax gun control. > The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like: https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t... Yeah, you’ve definitely never worked in a major midwestern city, because stuff like this still happens all the time, the racist have learned to just not be blatant about it. All you have to do is look at the C level executives at most American companies to see it. I’ve seen it first hand when I’ve tried to hire non white people in Canada and it was a battle for me. I have no idea why you think this is exclusive to France. I get that Bay Area companies are sometime more progressive, but companies in cities like Huston or Chicago, not so much, there’re still plenty of racists.

exporectomy 5y ago

You don't want to live in a city with poor people because it's cruel to have rich and poor living near each other? It kind of is because relative poverty makes people feel worse, but you'll surely bring useful tax money with you too.