4 ms·

I dislike headlines like this. It's phrased as a challenge, or almost an accusation. Why are you accusing me of not knowing what it's like to be jobless, Mister

by hugh3 15y ago

I dislike headlines like this. It's phrased as a challenge, or almost an accusation. Why are you accusing me of not knowing what it's like to be jobless, Mister Theatlantic? You don't even know me! And what does it turn out to be that I don't know about being jobless? Well here's what I learned: 1. It sucks 2. It's hard not having much money 3. Getting a job is hard 4. Don't do a degree in Women's Studies I'm not sure any of this was a particularly new insight.

kstenerud 15y ago
I think the real insight is sorely absent from the article. It seems that most people who undergo higher education do so with the expectation that it will lead to a "higher" job, and that's magical thinking. Sure, higher education is pretty much a requirement for certain classes of jobs, but it's not the only requirement, and it pales compared to the most important requirement: contacts. This is a human world we live in, and humans by nature are friendlier to someone they know than to someone they don't know. I, too, once believed in the entitlement that an education "should" bring, until I looked back at all of the jobs I landed (and the thousands I didn't), and realized that every single job I successfully interviewed for was a direct result of a contact in my network. This is even more important in times of recession, because you're up against a whole army of faceless job seekers, all flooding potential employers with pieces of paper and lamenting the lack of response. If an employer can't put a face to your name, you stand as much a chance of getting in as winning the lottery.
- WeAreKnights 15y ago
  I agree. But can you really blame people for believing what we're told our entire lives? Most of our childhood we're told to stop socializing and work hard so you can go to a good college and get a good job. When you become an adult you find out that those social contacts are more important than the degree you worked for.
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    It's not really a question of blame. It's terrible for all of these people to be trapped in a lie, but the fact remains that the only way out of it is to realize the truth of the matter and change course. Life never feels sorry for you, no matter how much you've been wronged.
    - hugh3 15y ago
      Oh purlheez. It's not a "lie". I don't know about you, but my career is based entirely on my university degree(s). And not because of the piece of paper, either, because of the crapload of stuff I learned at university which I never would have learned any other way. Many of the people who proclaim that university is useless are programmers. No surprises there -- programming is one of the few marketable skills which you can actually teach yourself from a book. Aeronautical engineering? Not so much.
      - randomdata 15y ago
        I don't think anyone would deny that a degree can sometimes help you attain a specific job. The "lie" is the notion that without a degree, your job choices will be limited to burger flipper at McDonalds. With a degree, any degree at all, your dream job will fall into your lap and you'll be paid handsomely to do it. Obviously neither are true, but that is what pre-college aged students are regularly told. If you have a love of aeronautical engineering, university is a fantastic place to study what you love. If you land a great job upon completion, even better. However, if you only have a love of money, studying aeronautical engineering is a waste of time. There are better and easier ways to make your fortune.
      - stmartin 15y ago
        a book, yes, plus 10 years of experience, understanding algorithms, data structures, operating systems, databases, hardware architecture, discrete math, automata, programming languages, etc.... yep.. anyone can do it from a book.
      - kstenerud 15y ago
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  The two can be combined. Lot of jobs I've landed were due both to knowledge gained in college, and networking gained via college.
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    That's my point exactly. Always be networking.
- powertower 15y ago
  > It seems that most people who undergo higher education do so with the expectation that it will lead to a "higher" job, and that's magical thinking. It's also false advertisement. "Get a degree from us and you'll get a job" is how it's sold to us from the age of elementary school forwards. Degrees are expensive and this industry earns 100s of billions every year. There is only 1 way they can market a degree to you, and that's to connect it directly with a job.
  - prostoalex 15y ago
    College loans is one of the crummiest industries in the US. By manipulating legislature to gain recourse status (even after a personal bankruptcy), accepting government money to finance such futile aspirations, and pushing up the overall price of higher ed, they're in a unique position to be disliked by both liberals and conservatives. With graduate degrees especially the loan applicant should be required to cover a good portion of their education from their current job. Which will make them at least test the waters (i.e. internship offices and recruiting departments) to see what market applicability their current/future degree has, instead of finding the truth a few years later with a six-digit debt.
    - amorphid 15y ago
      100% agreed.
  - danssig 15y ago
    I don't think it's really false, just misleading. You very well may land a great job because you were in college. But is so it will because of who you met, not what you learned.

by hugh3 15y ago

kstenerud 15y ago

I think the real insight is sorely absent from the article. It seems that most people who undergo higher education do so with the expectation that it will lead to a "higher" job, and that's magical thinking. Sure, higher education is pretty much a requirement for certain classes of jobs, but it's not the only requirement, and it pales compared to the most important requirement: contacts. This is a human world we live in, and humans by nature are friendlier to someone they know than to someone they don't know. I, too, once believed in the entitlement that an education "should" bring, until I looked back at all of the jobs I landed (and the thousands I didn't), and realized that every single job I successfully interviewed for was a direct result of a contact in my network. This is even more important in times of recession, because you're up against a whole army of faceless job seekers, all flooding potential employers with pieces of paper and lamenting the lack of response. If an employer can't put a face to your name, you stand as much a chance of getting in as winning the lottery.

WeAreKnights 15y ago
I agree. But can you really blame people for believing what we're told our entire lives? Most of our childhood we're told to stop socializing and work hard so you can go to a good college and get a good job. When you become an adult you find out that those social contacts are more important than the degree you worked for.
- kstenerud 15y ago
  It's not really a question of blame. It's terrible for all of these people to be trapped in a lie, but the fact remains that the only way out of it is to realize the truth of the matter and change course. Life never feels sorry for you, no matter how much you've been wronged.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    Oh purlheez. It's not a "lie". I don't know about you, but my career is based entirely on my university degree(s). And not because of the piece of paper, either, because of the crapload of stuff I learned at university which I never would have learned any other way. Many of the people who proclaim that university is useless are programmers. No surprises there -- programming is one of the few marketable skills which you can actually teach yourself from a book. Aeronautical engineering? Not so much.
    - randomdata 15y ago
      I don't think anyone would deny that a degree can sometimes help you attain a specific job. The "lie" is the notion that without a degree, your job choices will be limited to burger flipper at McDonalds. With a degree, any degree at all, your dream job will fall into your lap and you'll be paid handsomely to do it. Obviously neither are true, but that is what pre-college aged students are regularly told. If you have a love of aeronautical engineering, university is a fantastic place to study what you love. If you land a great job upon completion, even better. However, if you only have a love of money, studying aeronautical engineering is a waste of time. There are better and easier ways to make your fortune.
    - stmartin 15y ago
      a book, yes, plus 10 years of experience, understanding algorithms, data structures, operating systems, databases, hardware architecture, discrete math, automata, programming languages, etc.... yep.. anyone can do it from a book.
    - kstenerud 15y ago
sliverstorm 15y ago
The two can be combined. Lot of jobs I've landed were due both to knowledge gained in college, and networking gained via college.
- kstenerud 15y ago
  That's my point exactly. Always be networking.
powertower 15y ago
> It seems that most people who undergo higher education do so with the expectation that it will lead to a "higher" job, and that's magical thinking. It's also false advertisement. "Get a degree from us and you'll get a job" is how it's sold to us from the age of elementary school forwards. Degrees are expensive and this industry earns 100s of billions every year. There is only 1 way they can market a degree to you, and that's to connect it directly with a job.
- prostoalex 15y ago
  College loans is one of the crummiest industries in the US. By manipulating legislature to gain recourse status (even after a personal bankruptcy), accepting government money to finance such futile aspirations, and pushing up the overall price of higher ed, they're in a unique position to be disliked by both liberals and conservatives. With graduate degrees especially the loan applicant should be required to cover a good portion of their education from their current job. Which will make them at least test the waters (i.e. internship offices and recruiting departments) to see what market applicability their current/future degree has, instead of finding the truth a few years later with a six-digit debt.
  - amorphid 15y ago
    100% agreed.
- danssig 15y ago
  I don't think it's really false, just misleading. You very well may land a great job because you were in college. But is so it will because of who you met, not what you learned.