4 ms·

If you are genuinely concerned about the production quality of the food you eat, stick to local producers who are willing to have you at the farm. Many non-org

by bmj 5y ago

If you are genuinely concerned about the production quality of the food you eat, stick to local producers who are willing to have you at the farm. Many non-organic producers end up following many traditional "organic" practices but don't pursue the certifications that allow their food to be marketed as "organic." Obviously, buying processed food[0] is a different story, and in many cases, the organic label is very much just that -- a label. [0] Yes, yes, all food is processed at some level. I'm talking about a box of cereal, or a loaf of bread, or pasta, or, or, or...you get the idea.

asoneth 5y ago
Agreed. One of the things we like about our town is the number of small-scale family farms. Most are happy to let regulars/CSA-shareholders walk around the fields on the weekends, with the caveat that if they catch you they may talk you into lending a hand pulling weeds or feeding the chickens ;)
BurningFrog 5y ago
Each consumer individually inspecting each farm they eat food from does NOT scale, for consumers OR farmers.
- bmj 5y ago
  You're correct. But, clearly the model of government oversight isn't working out so well, either.
- kragen 5y ago
  Does it have to scale? How much food do you need to eat? 100 years ago, 90% of people were spending 2500 hours a year in the actual fields that produced the food they ate. It hardly seems ridiculous that 90% of people could spend, say, 5 or 10 hours a year visiting farms they want to eat food from. That's probably less time than you spend putting gas in your car.
  - gruez 5y ago
    > Does it have to scale? [...] > It hardly seems ridiculous that 90% of people could spend, say, 5 or 10 hours a year visiting farms they want to eat food from. 1. you're assuming people are in a good position to judge the "production quality" of a food from a farm visit. suppose you're at an apple orchard and they sprayed [nasty pesticide] last week. how can you discern that from a visit? 2. if this gets popular, what's preventing bad actors from gaming this? ie. focus on making things look good, rather than actually increasing production quality > That's probably less time than you spend putting gas in your car. Using very conservative estimates of 5 minutes per fill-up, and a fill-up every week, we get just over 4 hours per year. That's still below your proposed "5 or 10 hours a year".
    - kragen 5y ago
      Yeah, you're probably right that it would take more time than putting gas in your car, unless you're a contractor or something, and I appreciate the correction. Still, it's much less than, say, buying food at supermarkets, or watching a movie a month, or reading a novel a month, and even 25 hours a year is than 1% of the time most people throughout history have spent on raising food, so I don't think it's an unreasonable amount of time getting to know farmers, if knowing farmers is something that's important to you. To your other point, in general, yeah, it's true that people can get fooled. Farmers can lie. Sometimes you might be able to catch them; other times not. Probably you have more of a chance of figuring out who's honest if you know them than if you don't.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  Due diligence does not have to be tantamount to physically visiting a farm.
- Madmallard 5y ago
  Why would that matter?
formerly_proven 5y ago
Most green/eco labelling is more or less fraudulent. Not necessarily because the orgs themselves participate in fraud, but most of them simply don't have the capacity to actually ensure the alleged conditions are met by producers. See also: FSC wood, a lot of which is illegally cut but still gets certified in the end. Same story for fish.

by bmj 5y ago

asoneth 5y ago

Agreed. One of the things we like about our town is the number of small-scale family farms. Most are happy to let regulars/CSA-shareholders walk around the fields on the weekends, with the caveat that if they catch you they may talk you into lending a hand pulling weeds or feeding the chickens ;)

BurningFrog 5y ago

Each consumer individually inspecting each farm they eat food from does NOT scale, for consumers OR farmers.

bmj 5y ago
You're correct. But, clearly the model of government oversight isn't working out so well, either.
kragen 5y ago
Does it have to scale? How much food do you need to eat? 100 years ago, 90% of people were spending 2500 hours a year in the actual fields that produced the food they ate. It hardly seems ridiculous that 90% of people could spend, say, 5 or 10 hours a year visiting farms they want to eat food from. That's probably less time than you spend putting gas in your car.
- gruez 5y ago
  > Does it have to scale? [...] > It hardly seems ridiculous that 90% of people could spend, say, 5 or 10 hours a year visiting farms they want to eat food from. 1. you're assuming people are in a good position to judge the "production quality" of a food from a farm visit. suppose you're at an apple orchard and they sprayed [nasty pesticide] last week. how can you discern that from a visit? 2. if this gets popular, what's preventing bad actors from gaming this? ie. focus on making things look good, rather than actually increasing production quality > That's probably less time than you spend putting gas in your car. Using very conservative estimates of 5 minutes per fill-up, and a fill-up every week, we get just over 4 hours per year. That's still below your proposed "5 or 10 hours a year".
  - kragen 5y ago
    Yeah, you're probably right that it would take more time than putting gas in your car, unless you're a contractor or something, and I appreciate the correction. Still, it's much less than, say, buying food at supermarkets, or watching a movie a month, or reading a novel a month, and even 25 hours a year is than 1% of the time most people throughout history have spent on raising food, so I don't think it's an unreasonable amount of time getting to know farmers, if knowing farmers is something that's important to you. To your other point, in general, yeah, it's true that people can get fooled. Farmers can lie. Sometimes you might be able to catch them; other times not. Probably you have more of a chance of figuring out who's honest if you know them than if you don't.
slothtrop 5y ago
Due diligence does not have to be tantamount to physically visiting a farm.
Madmallard 5y ago
Why would that matter?

formerly_proven 5y ago

Most green/eco labelling is more or less fraudulent. Not necessarily because the orgs themselves participate in fraud, but most of them simply don't have the capacity to actually ensure the alleged conditions are met by producers. See also: FSC wood, a lot of which is illegally cut but still gets certified in the end. Same story for fish.