5 ms·

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because to

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because torture is not and shouldn't ever be considered a valid way to extract actionable information, being "fair" has nothing to do with what is being done here.

kingcharles 5y ago
Having been interrogated myself, it's incredible how defiant I was until my interrogators threatened my wife, and at that point I told them I'd do whatever they wanted.
q1w2 5y ago
There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture. Obviously the lawyer wants to protect his client from retribution from Al-Haq, so he will make outlandish accusations of "torture". I don't blame him - I'd be afraid of Al-Haq too after testifying against them. ...but remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber. Your claims torture are false.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > but remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber. That’s not actually a counter argument for torture here. Tons of torture victims will walk into court and say everything they said in the torture chamber; the threat of continued torture of them and their loved ones is quite the motivator. History is littered with examples of torture victims “confessing” in court, often to crimes that were laughably made up.
- otrahuevada 5y ago
  https://www.972mag.com/shin-bet-dossier-palestinian-ngos/ https://www.972mag.com/shin-bet-dossier-palestinian-ngos/ Oh isn'there? Please, stop lying. The established facts, that the Shin Bet tortures people and israeli courts accept anything extracted under torture as testimony, do not in any way make your attempt at attacking sources of information nor your claim that this is false any more valid. Your insistence makes me wonder what kind of incentives you have to be perceiving to go out of your way to defend a bald-faced lie like this. Can we go back to having an earnest discussion instead of a boring, hasbara-typical farce?
  - starik36 5y ago
    > Your insistence makes me wonder what kind of incentives you have to be perceiving If someone disagrees with you, surely they must be getting paid. Whose payroll are you on? > Can we go back to having an earnest discussion Indeed.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - otrahuevada 5y ago
      I'm sorry, do you have a point? You seem to be trying to imply something that makes 0 sense.
  - jules-jules 5y ago
    >what kind of incentives you have I am sure you are aware, but there is an ongoing, well-funded and highly organised propaganda campaign with deep military integration. https://old.reddit.com/r/WikiLeaks/comments/nher96/inside_israels_million_dollar_troll_army/ https://old.reddit.com/r/WikiLeaks/comments/nher96/inside_is... https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/n4etue/found_screenshots_of_the_israeli_propaganda_app/ https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/n4etue/found... https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/o5su74/the_israeli_hasbara_app_orders_recruit_to_promote/ https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/o5su74/the_i...
- VictorPath 5y ago
  > This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. 972mag is a magazine founded by Jewish journalists in Tel Aviv. When an Israeli magazine run by Jews condemns torture of Palestinians and is called a "Palestinian defense magazine", you have to wonder how provincial the thought process that would use that label is. Considering world opinion on the human rights of Palestinans who were tortured by Israel, which includes these journalists, and which includes their political pole within Jewish Israeli society, you have to wonder how isolated the group on the other side of all of this is.
- int_19h 5y ago
  > remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber Using torture to force victims to testify against themselves or others in an open court room was routine in early USSR, for example, so I don't see how this changes anything.

kingcharles 5y ago

Having been interrogated myself, it's incredible how defiant I was until my interrogators threatened my wife, and at that point I told them I'd do whatever they wanted.

q1w2 5y ago

There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture. Obviously the lawyer wants to protect his client from retribution from Al-Haq, so he will make outlandish accusations of "torture". I don't blame him - I'd be afraid of Al-Haq too after testifying against them. ...but remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber. Your claims torture are false.

ashtonkem 5y ago
> but remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber. That’s not actually a counter argument for torture here. Tons of torture victims will walk into court and say everything they said in the torture chamber; the threat of continued torture of them and their loved ones is quite the motivator. History is littered with examples of torture victims “confessing” in court, often to crimes that were laughably made up.
otrahuevada 5y ago
https://www.972mag.com/shin-bet-dossier-palestinian-ngos/ https://www.972mag.com/shin-bet-dossier-palestinian-ngos/ Oh isn'there? Please, stop lying. The established facts, that the Shin Bet tortures people and israeli courts accept anything extracted under torture as testimony, do not in any way make your attempt at attacking sources of information nor your claim that this is false any more valid. Your insistence makes me wonder what kind of incentives you have to be perceiving to go out of your way to defend a bald-faced lie like this. Can we go back to having an earnest discussion instead of a boring, hasbara-typical farce?
- starik36 5y ago
  > Your insistence makes me wonder what kind of incentives you have to be perceiving If someone disagrees with you, surely they must be getting paid. Whose payroll are you on? > Can we go back to having an earnest discussion Indeed.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - otrahuevada 5y ago
    I'm sorry, do you have a point? You seem to be trying to imply something that makes 0 sense.
- jules-jules 5y ago
  >what kind of incentives you have I am sure you are aware, but there is an ongoing, well-funded and highly organised propaganda campaign with deep military integration. https://old.reddit.com/r/WikiLeaks/comments/nher96/inside_israels_million_dollar_troll_army/ https://old.reddit.com/r/WikiLeaks/comments/nher96/inside_is... https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/n4etue/found_screenshots_of_the_israeli_propaganda_app/ https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/n4etue/found... https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/o5su74/the_israeli_hasbara_app_orders_recruit_to_promote/ https://old.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/o5su74/the_i...
VictorPath 5y ago
> This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. 972mag is a magazine founded by Jewish journalists in Tel Aviv. When an Israeli magazine run by Jews condemns torture of Palestinians and is called a "Palestinian defense magazine", you have to wonder how provincial the thought process that would use that label is. Considering world opinion on the human rights of Palestinans who were tortured by Israel, which includes these journalists, and which includes their political pole within Jewish Israeli society, you have to wonder how isolated the group on the other side of all of this is.
int_19h 5y ago
> remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber Using torture to force victims to testify against themselves or others in an open court room was routine in early USSR, for example, so I don't see how this changes anything.